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From Steven Noels <>
Subject Re: [proposal] a new kind of 'dist'
Date Mon, 24 Mar 2003 14:47:06 GMT
On 24/03/2003 15:28 Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

>> I for one think the 'copy cocoon.war into webapps dir and look at 
>> http://server:port/cocoon/' paradigm helps a lot of newcoming users up 
>> & running very fast. 
> please, define 'be up and running'.

Not knowing about javac, ant, and whatelse, just doing a simple 
filecopy, and still be greeted with 'welcome to cocoon'. There's a lot 
of apps who get distributed that way.

>> Even the Jetty path, as nice as it seems for us developers, might 
>> unfortunately not be of much use for them since their IT department 
>> wants them to deploy on XXX appserver anyhow.
> ./ war


> the difference between the above and a prebuild war is that the above 
> can be tuned for my needs with little effort (just modify the 
> while the prebuild war requires cocoon gurus to 
> remove stuff because of all the inner dependencies and the thousands 
> jars we ship.


>> And although in general, I agree on the principle of Cocoon really is 
>> a _framework_ for developers, reality tells me it is actively used by 
>> people who _don't_ want to program in order to do Java/XML-based 
>> websites.
> Am I the only one who heard complains about cocoon being very cool but 
> too hard to 'tune down' to simpler needs?

Nope, people have been asking for a blank webapp for over a year IIRC. 
Related to that, some of us have been advocating _against_ adding extra 
weight to Cocoon. How many of you are using these SAP R/3 components, 
now? ;-)

> I'm asking because I'm starting to wonder if this is the case.

No Stefano, you should not wonder. However, we are all projecting 
comments we hear in our private hemisphere as the 'overall 
appreciation', much of it being based on our own assumptions however.

Then again, responding against user complaints is easier than inventing 
from scratch a new build/dist system which makes both our and the user's 
life easier. So let's get over with this, and see what the users think. 
They've been kept out of the loop for too long.

Steven Noels                  
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
Read my weblog at  
stevenn at                stevenn at

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