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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: validation of config during build (Was: Re: sitemap validation is broken)
Date Fri, 07 Mar 2003 22:53:26 GMT
Steven Noels wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
>> Did I say that I consider having a sitemap schema descriptor harmful?
>> No, damn, I just said that I consider using that schema to validate 
>> the sitemap harmful.
> Let's agree that there exist multiple levels of validation, and that 
> each of them has its own merits. Coincidentally however, XML grammars 
> are also used to drive editors, and since the result of this editing is 
> fed into Java code, it better tries to attain the same level of 
> validation, as close as possible, if at possible.
> 'Which' schema do you mean here...: sitemap-v06.rng, or _any_ XSD/RNG 
> grammar at all? Sorry - just want to know.

I have a hard time explaining myself today, could be this new operating 

>>>> Example, try
>>>>  <generate uri="..."/>
>>>> where the uri attribute is not allowed in generate (shoulc be 
>>>> 'src'), the treeprocessor totally ignores this and sends the empty 
>>>> string to the parser, resulting in the error
>>>>  System ID not found!
>>>> Sitemap validation has stopped us from fixing the error messaging 
>>>> capabilities on mistakes.
>>> I don't parse this: in what way does the sitemap validation relieve 
>>> somebody of the task of properly handling exceptions on the code level?
>> The level of error-cheching of the treeprocessor isn't really that 
>> pretty and know why? because validation removed most of the mistakes 
>> that *us* developers do... but when users don't validate, they come up 
>> with *wierd* error messages that don't give them *any* clue whatsoever 
>> on how to fix the problem.
> Agree on the user aspect. But I don't follow the logic that the lack of 
> error-checking in code is _caused_ by the validation process. That's 
> just too fast to conclude.
>> My reasoning is that if we didn't have validation, we would see the 
>> same mistakes the users see and fix the treeprocessor instead of 
>> patching more and more the validation phase.
> Looking at the history of sitemap-v06.rng, I can't see this has been 
> happening a lot. Quite contrarily, some (myself included) have been 
> advocating to relax it even further. But dropping it will effectively 
> kill the small circle of people interested in maintaining such a thing.
> Reasonable?

<read my lips> I AM NOT SUGGESTING TO DROP THE SCHEMA!!! </read my lips>

is that clear enough? should I repeat it?

I'm suggesting to remove the validation target from the build system and 
improve the way treeprocessor handles errors.

As I said, i don't care *how* this is done, as long as the error 
messages that users receive are much more meaningful than those silly 
"System ID no found" when an attribute name is wrong.

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