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From Gianugo Rabellino <>
Subject Re: Flow Layer Database API
Date Mon, 03 Mar 2003 23:21:55 GMT
Christopher Oliver wrote:

> I've just committed [experimental] changes that provide a simple 
> database API for the Cocoon flow layer modeled after JSTL 

> Let me know what you think.

OK, first of all I must confess that I have little or no experience with 
the flow, so probably I should just shut up and let you guys proceed 
with your impressive work, eagerly waiting to have some time to catch up 
and join the party.

This said, I just wanted to share a couple of "belly thoughts", since 
the recent additions to the flow are ringing a bell in my head, and I 
start getting a bit puzzled. One of the first concerns we had when we 
started talking about flow was about people abusing it and how to stop 
them. The answer has always been that the flow would have played the 
role of "pure glue", providing, well, flow control and little more: in 
particular it was take for granted that the business objects would have 
been outside of the flow scope.

Now, this database addition makes me think that we are approaching the 
"all purpose" scenario (who said that every application must grow until 
it's able to connecto to a database? :-)), with a lot of possible (user) 
abuses (I perfectly understand that users will abuse it nevertheless, I 
just don't want to help them too much in that).

Please understand me: I might well be wrong with this, since I'm not 
seeing the whole picture... I'm just feeling that there might be 
something wrong here. Basically I don't see the reason for having 
specialized flow components that are somehow duplicating Cocoon ones 
(take Velocity as an example): if I'm not able to use Cocoon components 
inside the flow (better: if using Cocoon components is hard enough to 
make duplication a viable option) then I'm wondering if we aren't going 
sooner or later to crash against a wall.

Anyway, take this as an old aunt rant, just 0.02c of random thought from 
an almost complete ignorant. And, of course, thank you for the great job 
you have been doing until now: I surely hope to join the next 
discussions with a more thorough knowledge of what's going on under the 


Gianugo Rabellino
Pro-netics s.r.l.

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