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From Andreas Hochsteger <e9625...@student.tuwien.ac.at>
Subject Re: Flows with Jelly as backend?
Date Sat, 15 Mar 2003 19:34:51 GMT
On Saturday 15 March 2003 13:56, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Andreas Hochsteger wrote:
> > Hi everybody!
> >
> > I wonder if anybody ever looked at jelly:
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/commons/sandbox/jelly/
> >
> > I found a hint to it in the Wyona/Lenya users mailing list.
> > It consists of an XML syntax and a tool wich interprets the XML documents
> > and it seems to be similar to the way ant works.
> >
> > Would it in your opinion make sense to support it as backend for Cocoon
> > flow like this is the case now for JavaScript?
>
> I would personally dislike this option because Jelly is rewriting a
> programming language using a markup language syntax, which is, IMHO, a
> very bad thing to do.

That's what I wanted to know, thanks.
Since I just discovered Jelly, I didn't know, if it's suitable for Cocoon.

> Moreover, it doesn't add continuation support so it could be no
> replacement for the flow, but just a different way to write actions.
>
> Interesting timing, BTW, as we are discussing the ability for people to
> plug new sitemap tags.
>
> Imagine having jelly inside the sitemap.
>
> Brrr, scary.

I have to agree ;-)

Is it generally acceptable to support XML-based process modelling 
standards in the future, which don't lead that easy to the misuse of flow 
functionality for things which should be better implemented in an other way?

Are there any requirements for such a language, which you can speak out 
(besides an implementation which supports continuations), to consider them 
for integration or support within Cocoon?

Here is an (incomplete) list of XML-based process/workflow modeling 
standards which are currently available or in development:
* BPEL4WS - Business Process Execution Language for Web Services (Bea,IBM,MS)
  http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-bpel/
* BPML - Business Process Modeling Language (BPMI)
  http://www.bpmi.org/bpml.esp
* ebBPSS - ebXML Business Process Specification Schema (ebXML.org)
  http://www.ebxml.org/specs/ebBPSS.pdf
* PIP - Partner Interface Process (RossetaNet)
  http://www.rosettanet.org/rosettanet/standards/
* UML - Unified Modeling Language (OMG)
  http://www.omg.org/technology/documents/formal/uml.htm
* WSCL - Web Services Conversation Language (W3C)
  http://www.w3.org/TR/wscl10/
* XPDL - XML Process Definition Language (WfMC)
  http://www.wfmc.org/standards/docs.htm

Further information:
* XML-Based Workflow and Process Management Standards: XPDL, Wf-XML
  http://xml.coverpages.org/wf-xml.html
* Still no universal workflow
  http://www.nwfusion.com/columnists/2002/0701kobielus.html
* XML business-process model ready for release
  http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2406/ITW030701xml/

Perhaps you can comment on them to help those, which don't have that deep 
knowledge of Cocoon internals, to better see the big picture about where 
Cocoon will go in the future.

Awaiting your comments,

	Andreas Hochsteger


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