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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject [RT] what cocoon is doing wrong
Date Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:55:13 GMT
There are a few things that we are doing wrong. I'll make a dump of my 
random thoughts about these in order to foster a discussion.

Building on sand

We developped a habit of building on sand.

Recently on avalon-dev I expressed my concerns about their habit of 
moving stuff around for elegance-sake, but I'm starting to think that 
Cocoon is abusing avalon and this places too much pressure on their 

Example: the instrumentation. The Cocoon core is based on code that has 
never been released. So, Avalon has the right to move it around (and 
screw us). But I don't think it's *their* fault, it's entirely ours.

I'm starting to think that the Cocoon dev team should create a policy

   | never commit code that depends on non-released stuff |

Another example: the Source stuff moved to Avalon.

Is it possible that things are marked as *deprecated* and even Cocoon 
itself depends on deprecated stuff? sand on sand.

Huge library dependance

Let's look at the list of libraries we depend on:

why do we depend on different 'concurrent' libraries?

why do we have altRMI stuff over in /lib/optional when they are needed 
by the instrumentation that is placed on /lib/core? wouldn't it be core 

do we really have to depend on *THREE* different xpath libraries 
(xalan,jxpath and jaxen)? can't we make an avalon component that 
provides xpath querying services and work from there?

why do we need both 'excalibur-logger' and 'commons-logging'? didn't we 
refactor the log?

why we depend on cornerstone-excalibur-thread*?

Scratchpad considered harmful

I proposed to remove the scratchpad and no consensus was reached. I try 
again but this time harder: I think the scratchpad is harmful.


1) for non-core stuff, alpha blocks will do just fine and will even keep 
libraries out of the way.

2) if you want to try things around with core stuff, I *WANT* you to do 
it on the head. It's called 'continous integration'. No, dude, I won't 
make it easier for you, I want it to make it harder so that everybody 
sees what you're doing and can improve on it.

I repeat my proposal to kill the scratchpad

enough for now. i need food.

Stefano Mazzocchi                               <>
    Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate [William of Ockham]

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