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From SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous <>
Subject Re: xdoc -> wiki documentation (Re: documentation in separate cvs module or block)
Date Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:02:42 GMT

The mentioning of "Wiki" triggered my curiousity:

If we move all docs to Wiki, then how can we maintain
different release versions of the docs ?

Or will there be only one single document version, that
fits for all released cocoon versions ?

Or do you propose to connect Wiki with an underlying
document management system?

regards, hussayn

Jeff Turner wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 19, 2003 at 03:11:44PM +1100, David Crossley wrote:
>>Diana Shannon wrote:
> ...
>>>I find it a PITA to have to update my HEAD **and** release cvs
>>>branches for simple document updates. It's frustrating to have
>>>doc updates dependencies on a HEAD branch that doesn't reliably
>>>build. I think a separate CVS branch/block/module would be a
>>>definite improvement of the existing situation, but I still think
>>>Wiki should remain the way a majority of people contribute/patch
>>>docs. In fact, I think we should consider moving all existing
>>>Cocoon docs straight to Wiki, so people can patch them there.
>>>I proposed it early, when Cocoon's Wiki started, but I backed
>>>off, given the fact it looked like a way to run around Forrest --
>>>which I didn't want to do. However, now with Wiki's increasing 
>>>integration to Forrest (and Steven's ideas of converting wiki
>>>docs via site.xml or similar), it makes increasing sense to me.
>>Will people be able to do both ways - traditional patch/create
>>xdocs in cvs, or via the Wiki?
> With Chaperon integration, the next version of Forrest should be able to
> handle cwiki and xdoc formats equally well.
>>Online editing might be okay for people in well-connected countries.
>>However, for the rest of us, working online via dial-up modem through a
>>clumsy web interface is not productive.
> Well, with the wiki, you click 'edit', make your change, click 'save',
> and that's it.
> With CVS, you have to:
>  - Download a CVS client
>  - Install it, Learn how to use it, work out the pserver string, bang
>    your head against CVS_RSH, eventually get it right.
>  - For many users, discover for the first time that a firewall blocks
>    port 2401, and you've wasted your time.
>  - Wait n hours for 34M of Cocoon to download
>  - find the xdoc you want to edit, build docs, wait, rinse, repeat
>  - Search the web for "how to create a patch". Finally figure out 'cvs
>    diff -u'.
>  - Create a bugzilla account, create a doc enhancement request.
> And that's your afternoon, if not your whole day, down the drain.
> Moving to Forrest will make the edit turnaround cycle faster, at the
> expense of an extra 10mb download.
> So I agree with Diana about moving all docs to the Wiki.  It seems the
> best long-term solution, avoiding all the problems that a dual wiki/xdoc
> system would cause.
> --Jeff
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Dr. Hussayn Dabbous
SAXESS Software Design GmbH
Neuenhöfer Allee 125
50935 Köln
Telefon: +49-221-56011-0
Fax:     +49-221-56011-20

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