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From Niclas Hedhman <>
Subject Re: sample web-app too complex?
Date Wed, 05 Feb 2003 05:01:37 GMT
On Monday 03 February 2003 23:50, SAXESS - Hussayn Dabbous wrote:
> I would like to distinguish between
> "creating a webapp with minimal cocoon"
> and
> "creating a webapp with minimal functionality"
> would not be what a beginner wants to start with, before they
> get something to see. In my eyes this may be "step 2". But to
> be honest here, i never thought of stripping down cocoon
> to its basics. i just keep it as is and use what i need.
> One day i may find out, that a very particular peace of cocoon
> would be exactly what i need, but unfortunately i dropped it
> by stripping down cocoon earlier. Now i can try to find out,
> what i have to put back into my webapp to get the new stuff
> up and running hmm... not convinced.

I tend to both agree and disagree at the same time... ;o)

Thinking back to Apache Webserver... When I first opened the httpd.conf (which 
in those days was spread out over three files to make matters worse), I was 
overwhelmed with the sheer amount of settings, and closed it (them) quickly.

I realized I needed to dig through that to get my server up and running (the 
defaults were also less perfect than today), and every line was scrutinized; 
"Do I need to change this?", "What does this mean?" and a lot "Wow, can I do 

So, although it scared the "mud-like-substance" out of me, it also re-inforced 
the learning speed.

Looking at that (because I was too involved with the inception of sitemaps, 
generators, aggregation and all the rest, so I know what it means in Cocoon, 
and is not a "neutral" first user) I think I can give this feedback;

Any configuration file, be it httpd.conf or sitemaps, should be organized in a 
couple of sections, and ordered in some kind of priority order, where lesser 
used features, or very advanced features are placed far from the top.
If the first "section" covers the "essentials", and clearly indicates that "If 
you are setting up Cocoon the first time, you probably don't need to go 
beyond this point..." it would be great.

What I am trying to say; Complex new settings environments (such as sitemaps) 
are intimidating at first (especially if your editor is not XML aware with 
syntax highlighting), but it is easier to review and modify sample entries, 
than trying to pick them up from a xdoc and "get it to work".
Also, the comments should be more descriptive, especially what the Cocoon 
specific terms means, so if I am reasonably bright, I don't need much more 


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