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From "ivelin" <>
Subject Re: extending XMLForms for different kinds of models...opinions?
Date Tue, 18 Feb 2003 03:29:40 GMT

Thanks for the comments.
I will read up some more and decide whether it may work for a huge
meet-in-the-middle project.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ugo Cei" <>
To: <>
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 3:32 AM
Subject: Re: extending XMLForms for different kinds of models...opinions?

> ivelin wrote:
> > Ugo, can you can share experience with Hibernate vs. Jakarta OJB,
> > or another Open Source O/R tool.
> >
> > There is a reasonably objective comparison here
> >
> > but I would like to hear more from a usability, flexibility and
> > perspective.
> I cannot really do a comparison here. Hibernate is the first O/R mapping
> tool I've used (after a few home-made attempts) and I haven't tried
> either OJB or Cayenne or anything else.
> Apart from what I've already said, I like Hibernate also because:
> 1. It follows the principles outlined in Scott Ambler's papers ([1] and
> [2]), which I heppen to mostly agree with.
> 2. It has a lively community behind itself and is being very actively
> developed.
> I think usability is great and is immensely helped by good docs. I
> cannot comment much on flexibility, I have just one application
> developed with Hibernate and it was designed in a top-down fashion (i.e.
> design your ojbects first, than derive the DB structure from them),
> which is IMHO the best, if you can afford to get DBAs to do what you ask
> ;-). But Hibernate purports to support all styles of design (top-down,
> bottom-up, middle-out, meet-in-the-middle, see [3]), so flexibility
> should be guaranteed.
> With respect to performance, I haven't any data and in my application we
> haven't done any benchmarking or optimization yet. I have the feeling
> that it is executing a little too many queries behind the scenes, but
> that by tweaking Hibernate's settings (eager vs. lazy loading, caching)
> we could get very good performance without mucking with the code.
> Biggest problem so far (mostly with some of my co-workers, who have a
> good SQL background) is that sometimes you get a feeling of loss of
> control. Not being able to control what SQL statements you application
> is executing can be intimitading to some. Not to me, I always loathed
> SQL ;-), but sometimes, when the thing does not work as you expect it to
> (and most of the times this is due to your misreading of the docs), you
> wonder whether the Law of Leaky Abstractions [4] is going to apply.
> Ugo
> --
> Ugo Cei -
> [1]:
> [2]:
> [3]:
> [4]:
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