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From "John Morrison" <john.r.morri...@ntlworld.com>
Subject RE: [OT] cocoon is like windows
Date Fri, 01 Nov 2002 17:03:03 GMT
> From: Argyn.Kuketayev@Techspan.com [mailto:Argyn.Kuketayev@Techspan.com]
>
>
> I see it this way: it's a Web GUI to a collection of components, which can

No, it's *NOT* a web GUI.  It's just that that is the way most people
have it configured.

> interact with each other in the pipelines. That's how it's seen from the
> user's point of view. There's a bunch of generators, transformers etc. If
> you want to do something with cocoon, you have to run some components.
>
> I stressed Web GUI because, you hide your components from the uers behind
> the Web interface. You configure the sitemap, then the only way to get
> Cocoon do something is to enter URL in the browser launching one of the
> pipelines. The user can't access the Cocoon components in his own way. He

And the user *shouldn't* access the components.

> doesn't even know about their existence. In other words he can't
> dynamically form a pipeline.
>
> I see an analogy with Unix. One of its stregthes is that it has many
> utilities which can cooperate with each other. Cocoon is somewhat
> similar in
> that. The difference is that in Unix any user can write his own
> scripts, in

No.  If you remove access to /bin, what can a unix user do?  Next
to nothing (if that).

> Cocoon he can't. So, Cocoon in this sense is Windows: run your
> app and don't
> bother with customizing the system for your needs.
>
> Here's the idea: why not to allow bypass Web GUI in Cocoon. Maybe sitemap

I assume that you mean users bypass.

> must be gone too. So, there must be means to build a Cocoon powered system
> in such a way, that I can see what components are in Cocoon and use them
> deliberately. Suppose, I launch URL: /generators/dir and get the list of
> generators. Then I say:
> /generators/xsp/bla-bla@/serializer/html/ya-da-da

I'm sure this is possible.  I wouldn't do and wouldn't like to allow,
but I'm sure it's possible.

> This will be my command line to launch a generator then forward it to a
> serializer.
> Or like this:
> /generators/xsp/bla-bla@/temp/a
> This would store the output in the temporary URL: /temp/a, so it
> can be used
> instead of the generator later on.
>
> Then I write my own scripts with things like that, and get my own pipeline
> installed for me. Maybe it's added to my personal sitemap for the current
> session, or forever (with cookies).

Admin *nightmare*!

> This way you tell the user: "this Web site is not your ordinary site. Here
> we provide you with the powerfull XML/XSLT toolkit, which you can
> use as you
> like. Pick up your tools, make pipelines, save results in temporary URLs,
> access them later and so on. Customize it, use my site to analyze and
> process your data with my XML tools."
>
> So, Cocoon will be more like Unix, and less like Windows, i.e.
> like OS X :)

I still can't see your analogy.  Cocoon can do everything I want,
how I want it.

> have a good weekend and don't take me too serious :),

You'd have been better putting this at the beginning :)

J.

> Argyn


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