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Message-ID: <3DC1A992.2020302@anyware-tech.com>
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 23:07:14 +0100
From: Sylvain Wallez <sylvain.wallez@anyware-tech.com>
Organization: Anyware Technologies
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To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
Subject: Re: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
References: <GMEBIBHGAOFGJCDPJANDEEECFJAA.cziegeler@s-und-n.de>
 <3DC19326.3050308@outerthought.org>
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Steven Noels wrote:

> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
>
>> But, *if* Cocoon becomes a top-level project, I'm not sure if it is also
>> a good thing to use cocoondev.org as the infrastructure. Now I see
>> two possible problems:
>>
>> a) What is hosted where? Is a mailing list hosted at apache or at
>>    cocoondev.org etc. Of course, this might not be a big thing, but
>>    it could confuse others.
>>    We could use cocoondev.org for example for show casing Cocoon
>>    and everything else is hosted at apache.
>
>
> First things first: cocoondev.org is simply a machine name, and it is 
> currently listening to/hosting outerthought.org, 
> forrest.cocoondev.org, and whatever name we could invent for it: the 
> joy of DNS :-)
>
> So when I say cocoondev.org, I simply mean the machine (and its 
> primary name, which even could be changed if we really would like to).
>
> Technically, I was thinking along these lines: we use cocoondev.org 
> (the machine) to host the new website and the developers community 
> website, which is being ProxyPassed [1] by daedalus or nagoya as 
> cocoon.apache.org. That way, we leverage [2] the existing bandwidth 
> availability and are able to use the lowered load on our (= the cocoon 
> community) own machine for 'cool stuff'. The main website can make use 
> of all dynamic features we would like to use, but with some clever 
> expiry header setting we still can benefit of a reverse proxy, formed 
> by nagoya or daedalus.
>
> [1] http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_proxy.html#proxypass
> [2] buzzword bingo: 1 point :-)

Hey, we're also using the "XML" buzzword all the time ;-)

> Lists for Cocoon-core development should stay at daedalus, as cvs for 
> Cocoon-core should stay at icarus, but maybe, if someone builds a cool 
> webmailarchive using Cocoon, we would be able to run that software on 
> our own machine, without heavy lobbying of 'the powers that be' at 
> infrastructure@apache.org.
>
> Mind you that I really appreciate the hardware resources so kindly 
> offered by Collab & Sun, but given the broad range of projects & 
> services they have to support, and the inevitable burden that comes 
> with this, I believe everybody will be better off if we do our own 
> thing ("we" and "our" as in the Cocoon developers community), maybe 
> reverse proxied by nagoya for load & bandwidth purposes.
>
> Along the Cocoon-core website and the possible developers community 
> website (of which the Wiki could be part), there is still space to 
> host other Cocoon-related projects, part of the initial version behind 
> cocoondev.org.


I like this idea, as we need, as shown by cocoondev.org, to host some 
live Cocoon apps. But we *must* also use the common infrastructure 
provided by daedalus and icarus when it makes sense : static website, 
distros, mailing lists and cvs (IMHO including the ones of 
cocoondev.org). This ensures we won't be tempted by a "Cocoon software 
foundation" (even if I'm sure Stefano will take great care to avoid 
this), save bandwidth, CPU and administration costs for people/entities 
offering resource for live applications.

Proxypassing will also allow to have _several_ machines behind 
cocoon.apache.org. This can provide simple load partitioning and allow 
different members of the community to offer CPU and bandwidth (nothing 
sure for now, but I'd like my company to offer some).

However, I wonder if proxypassing from San Diego (IIRC this is where 
icarus and daedalus are) to Ghent or another european location is 
technically ok ? Don't you fear about tcp packets making a trip around 
the earth when you send a request through cocoon.apache.org to the 
machine that's in the room next door ?

Sylvain

-- 
Sylvain Wallez                                  Anyware Technologies
http://www.apache.org/~sylvain           http://www.anyware-tech.com
{ XML, Java, Cocoon, OpenSource }*{ Training, Consulting, Projects }


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