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From Steven Noels <stev...@outerthought.org>
Subject Re: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
Date Fri, 01 Nov 2002 07:56:07 GMT
Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:

> Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> 
>> I like this idea, as we need, as shown by cocoondev.org, to host some
>> live Cocoon apps. But we *must* also use the common infrastructure
>> provided by daedalus and icarus when it makes sense : static website,
>> distros, mailing lists and cvs (IMHO including the ones of
>> cocoondev.org). 
> 
> 
> Absolutely. It would be plain silly to redo something that already works 
> great (CVS/mail/static web are just great and managed very well, IMO).

Sure: the CVS/list services on cocoondev.org would only be for 
non-Apache Cocoon-based projects.

> What we lack is the ability to host our own web applications and this is 
>  what we want to fix.
> 
>> This ensures we won't be tempted by a "Cocoon software
>> foundation" (even if I'm sure Stefano will take great care to avoid
>> this), save bandwidth, CPU and administration costs for 
>> people/entities offering resource for live applications.
> 
> 
> Oh, you can bet your ass here :)

No worries here too: while Cocoon is a great project & community, I 
would never started working with it if it wasn't an Apache project. And 
I'd opt for the proxypass solution rather than switching DNS.

>> Proxypassing will also allow to have _several_ machines behind
>> cocoon.apache.org. This can provide simple load partitioning and allow
>> different members of the community to offer CPU and bandwidth (nothing
>> sure for now, but I'd like my company to offer some).
> 
> 
> Yep. Also, as Steven and I discussed on the phone, most of the bandwidth 
> is used by distributions and Pier told me that infrastructure@ is 
> building a pretty nice rsync-based mirroring system.
> 
> So it makes perfect sense to use the ASF machinery when it works and 
> just *patch* what we need.
> 
>> However, I wonder if proxypassing from San Diego (IIRC this is where
>> icarus and daedalus are) to Ghent or another european location is
>> technically ok?
> 
> 
> Don't use geographical topology as a metric. Steven, what is the network 
> topology between the ASF machines and the one we would be using?

 From daedalus:

bash-2.05a$ traceroute cocoondev.org
traceroute to cocoondev.org (209.15.201.32), 64 hops max, 44 byte packets
  1  fa3-13.br1.sfo.collab.net (63.251.56.130)  0.293 ms  0.239 ms  0.161 ms
  2  200.ge2-0.er2b.sjc3.us.mfnx.net (64.124.78.35)  0.657 ms  0.280 ms 
  0.438 ms
  3  so-1-2-0.cr1.sjc3.us.mfnx.net (208.185.175.193)  0.554 ms  0.406 ms 
  10.012 ms
  4  pos9-1.mpr1.pao1.us.mfnx.net (208.184.232.178)  0.940 ms  0.891 ms 
  0.877 ms
  5  64.124.11.198.cogent-above.above.net (64.124.11.198)  1.464 ms 
1.525 ms  1.466 ms
  6  p6-0.core02.sfo01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.149)  1.512 ms  1.948 
ms  1.577 ms
  7  p15-0.core01.den01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.129)  43.539 ms 
43.037 ms  43.010 ms
  8  p5-0.core01.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.4.30)  43.073 ms 
42.990 ms  43.088 ms
  9  g50.ba01.b006121-1.mci01.atlas.cogentco.com (66.28.65.130)  43.142 
ms  43.001 ms  43.050 ms
10  hosting4u.demarc.cogentco.com (66.250.5.98)  56.774 ms  56.990 ms 
56.631 ms
11  core2-POS3-0.KCY.hosting4u.net (209.15.6.97)  58.486 ms  56.611 ms 
56.589 ms
12  net2-vlan1-sup2.KCY.hosting4u.net (209.15.116.246)  56.965 ms 
57.326 ms  56.902 ms
13  fw.kc.aoindustries.com (209.15.126.2)  56.802 ms  57.651 ms  57.188 ms
14  cocoondev.org (209.15.201.32)  56.805 ms  57.370 ms  57.527 ms

The machine is located in Kansas City, US, not in Ghent. And maybe we 
can tweak routing tables from daedalus to cocoondev.org.

Ping times are averaging 60ms. Cannot test from nagoya, don't have an 
account there. While it doesn't reach the level of interconnectedness as 
daedalus & nagoya, I think the interconnection is more than decent 
enough for a proxypass solution. Let's ask the network gurus of 
infrastructure@apache.org (I feel like in a 'coming-out' mode anyhow :-)

</Steven>
-- 
Steven Noels                            http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org                      stevenn@apache.org


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