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From Steven Noels <stev...@outerthought.org>
Subject Re: [important proposal] Cocoon as official Apache project
Date Thu, 31 Oct 2002 20:31:34 GMT
Carsten Ziegeler wrote:

> But, *if* Cocoon becomes a top-level project, I'm not sure if it is also
> a good thing to use cocoondev.org as the infrastructure. Now I see
> two possible problems:
> 
> a) What is hosted where? Is a mailing list hosted at apache or at
>    cocoondev.org etc. Of course, this might not be a big thing, but
>    it could confuse others.
>    We could use cocoondev.org for example for show casing Cocoon
>    and everything else is hosted at apache.

First things first: cocoondev.org is simply a machine name, and it is 
currently listening to/hosting outerthought.org, forrest.cocoondev.org, 
and whatever name we could invent for it: the joy of DNS :-)

So when I say cocoondev.org, I simply mean the machine (and its primary 
name, which even could be changed if we really would like to).

Technically, I was thinking along these lines: we use cocoondev.org (the 
machine) to host the new website and the developers community website, 
which is being ProxyPassed [1] by daedalus or nagoya as 
cocoon.apache.org. That way, we leverage [2] the existing bandwidth 
availability and are able to use the lowered load on our (= the cocoon 
community) own machine for 'cool stuff'. The main website can make use 
of all dynamic features we would like to use, but with some clever 
expiry header setting we still can benefit of a reverse proxy, formed by 
nagoya or daedalus.

[1] http://httpd.apache.org/docs-2.0/mod/mod_proxy.html#proxypass
[2] buzzword bingo: 1 point :-)

Lists for Cocoon-core development should stay at daedalus, as cvs for 
Cocoon-core should stay at icarus, but maybe, if someone builds a cool 
webmailarchive using Cocoon, we would be able to run that software on 
our own machine, without heavy lobbying of 'the powers that be' at 
infrastructure@apache.org.

Mind you that I really appreciate the hardware resources so kindly 
offered by Collab & Sun, but given the broad range of projects & 
services they have to support, and the inevitable burden that comes with 
this, I believe everybody will be better off if we do our own thing 
("we" and "our" as in the Cocoon developers community), maybe reverse 
proxied by nagoya for load & bandwidth purposes.

Along the Cocoon-core website and the possible developers community 
website (of which the Wiki could be part), there is still space to host 
other Cocoon-related projects, part of the initial version behind 
cocoondev.org.

> b) Legal issues. To be honest, I don't know much about legal things,
>    but I guess that it might make a difference if something is done
>    on a server hosted by apache or on a server not hosted by apache.

See Ovidiu's remark - those machines aren't necesserally owned by the 
ASF, I believe - and I'm pretty sure the bandwidth bills are paid by 
Collab, not by the ASF. The reason for investigating possible official 
endorsement by the ASF (dunnow how that would look like, but anyhow - 
maybe http://xml.apache.org/ack.html comes close ;-) is exactly to make 
sure that eventual legal issues are covered (Dirk?).

> Don't get me wrong, I really like the idea of cocoondev.org and as long
> as Cocoon is not a top-level project, it's the only way.
> But if we become a top-level project, I really like the idea to "fix
> the current problems/shortcommings" here at Apache.
> 
> Perhaps we can talk more about this at the gettogether.

Yeah, but let's try to use the list so that non-attendees are being 
informed, too. We've just seen what happens if people don't understand 
each other because of non-explicit communication :-)

Thanks for your remarks!

</Steven>
-- 
Steven Noels                            http://outerthought.org/
Outerthought - Open Source, Java & XML Competence Support Center
stevenn@outerthought.org                      stevenn@apache.org


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