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From Tony Collen ...@hist.umn.edu>
Subject Re: [RT] Getting rid of the table-based layout
Date Mon, 28 Oct 2002 20:43:30 GMT
Steven Noels wrote:

> Miles Elam wrote:
>
>> But then again, this is all sophostry and rhetoric without something 
>> to look at or back it up with.  So, getting to my point, I got bored 
>> today and made a mockup of http://xml.apache.org/cocoon/ in XHTML 1.0 
>> Strict.
>>
>> http://cocoon.iguanacharlie.com/
>>
>> I hope this illustrates my point of view.  Sure, it could use some 
>> tweaking (I just whipped it out), but it validates, looks pretty good 
>> for braille readers, looks pretty good for good browsers, and any 
>> browser should be able to get the content (including Mosaic holdouts 
>> who can't handle tables).  Wasn't this the point of XHTML?  Wasn't 
>> this the point of CSS?
>

For the most part, the page degrades gracefully on NS 4.7n on Win2k. 
 There's a bit of cruft that has some of the navbar images in it, but 
that might be able to get hidden from browsers that don't do CSS.  

The nice part about using CSS is that the content can appear in any 
order in the source page, but appear in a different place thanks to 
CSS-P. That way, for browsers that don't support CSS (Old Netscape, 
Lynx), text-based navigation/copyright/etc can appear lower on the page, 
letting them get to the content faster.  In fancier browsers, the 
navigational text can appear anywhere on the page.

>
> Nice work, I must admit. Lean and mean code - but we should check on 
> older browsers - I'll be trying this with my rusty NS 4.07 on Linux.


What's even cooler is when your 100% CSS/XHTML page contains no images, 
and there's only 2 requests per page - one for the page itself and one 
for the linked stylesheet.  Converting a page from table-based with 
<font> tags to CSS will also reduce bandwidth usage.

I spent a weekend converting Microsoft's mane page (www.microsoft.com) 
from table-based to CSS-based.  The table-based page was over 30KB of 
HTML.  I think all of my CSS and XHTML didn't top much past 7KB.

>
> We could use some helping hands over at Forrest to finish our skins.


Where do I sign up? :)

Regards,

TC


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