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From: Geoff Howard <ghoward@crosswalk.com>
To: "'cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org'" <cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org>
Subject: [PROPOSAL]Cocoon Demo App Idea
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 23:51:08 -0400
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In listening to the various discussions that have been popping up regarding
the desire to create some live demonstration sites to show cocoon's
abilities and begin to establish some best practices examples for web
applications using cocoon, I've been thinking a few things.  Bear with me, a
practical suggestion follows.

1) <Not the main point/>Wouldn't a killer app be to demonstrate the use of
cocoon as a better front end to an EJB based application?  What about taking
an existing EJB app and showing how quickly it can be placed behind cocoon?
Cocoon gives the code reuse and flexibility on the front end that EJB gives
on the back end.  Could one use the actual Pet Store demo?

That led to the practical suggestion, which dovetails with the
Documentation/Wiki issue, and the problem I see with the unfriendly nature
of the list for the casual/new user.  ...

2) What about taking an existing good forums application and using it as a
cocoon datasource?  With interoperability with newsgroups and email lists,
it could tame the current list "problem".  It could be used to add forums
discussion to the bottom of the docs (not on xml.apache.org i understand) ,
enabling a user to right there for all the world to see say "this makes no
sense" or "this has changed since this was written" or "your grammer is
bad".

My suggestion would be "Jive" http://www.jivesoftware.com 
- it's not "open source" but source code is provided
- it's not free, but it is free for this use (if i read correctly)
- it's good (check out the current customers - jboss and sun.com among them.
- it's more of an established concept than Wiki (no offense - not trying to
shut that down)
- the "skins" system is not xml/xsl and they are not sold on xsl because
"it's too hard to learn, and it's slow".  Their suggestion for a better
system is (get this) the world wide industry standard: Tea.
- although i haven't looked at the code yet, they do have xml export/import
ability (option one), and it's JSP based (option two - create an "xml"
skin), and it's "bean" based (option 3 - marshall the beans in the generator
- i think we need better built in functionality for this any way)
- some other good things that I can't remember right now because it's almost
midnight my time.

I can't offer to head this up because my company's being bought out and i'm
in need of a job in the next few weeks, but I can offer to help (unless my
next employer discourages open source contributions).

I have no connection with Jive software, nor do I know anyone who does by
the way.

Ain't just jive talkin', 
Geoff Howard

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