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From Piroumian Konstantin <>
Subject RE: Cocoon Wiki (was: Re: [CLEANCOON] Let's clean Cocoon and modu larize it . . .)
Date Wed, 07 Aug 2002 08:24:58 GMT
> From: Ulrich Mayring [] 
> Andrew C. Oliver wrote:
> > Personally....  I feel content is king.  The rest is details.  Lets 
> > start generating more content..then we'll figure out how to 
> organize it, 
> > and then figure out the technical details (which often seem 
> to become 
> > the focus....but this is WRONG)
> Generally I would agree with you. But as with all good rules, 
> there are 
> exceptions. Content is NOT king, when there is not at least a basic 
> presentation layer and a sense of "we practice what we preach" aka 
> "proof of concept".
> When Cocoon first started out, many people got excited and went to 
> coding. But no-one could be bothered to use this new tool for 
> the most 
> basic purpose: to serve its own website. Even today, generations and 
> generations of code later, Cocoon does not serve its own website. And 
> now it does not serve its own Wiki.

Your are wrong saying that Cocoon does not server its own website. Cocoon's
site is generated using Cocoon's CLI as well as the Forrest site
( or the recent version: The reason that the web site is not served
as a web application is the infrastructure that has no running servlet
engine on the web server.

> People from outside ask: what kind of web publishing 
> technology cannot 
> even serve its own website? And, Cocoon wants to replace JSP, but it 
> uses JSPWiki?

Cocoon can be used to implement a Wiki application, isn't it? The other
thing is that nobody had did it yet.

> I'm sure there are good reasons, but from a marketing point 
> of view this 
> is a show-stopper. It gives the impression that Cocoon is so 
> hard to use 
> that even the devs themselves prefer lighter tools.

For lighter tasks a lighter tool is the best, but when you have a complex
web application/site with customizable/personalizable content and layout,
where you will need multimedia output of the same content etc. then you'll
hardly be happy to do it using JSP even with its XML and Tiles like taglibs.


> Ulrich
> -- 
> Ulrich Mayring
> DENIC eG, Systementwicklung
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