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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [RT] reconsidering pipeline semantics
Date Sun, 07 Jul 2002 14:57:10 GMT
"J.Pietschmann" wrote:
> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > In that case I agree: like I said, if you need to do your stuff without
> > Cocoon around, or without a precise way (xpipe?) to define how a
> > document is processed, document() is the way to go. That's the only
> > argument I acknowledge.
> The problem appears to be that there aren't many
> (any?) stand-alone xinclude processors and XML
> pipeline processors out there, not the mention
> the lack of standardized interfaces, descriptions
> (for pipelines) and behaviour. Cocoon is breaking
> ground here, but for many purposes having to use
> full Cocoon is just too heavyweight (and too
> monolithic).


> What about applying to standards organisations
> for pipeline descriptions and Java interfaces
> to xinclude, pipeline, FO and SVG processors?
> Cocoon could provide a host experience and would
> make a great testbed.

They are both much more limited than Cocoon, but they are powerful
enough to turn document() into a bad practice most of the times.

Unfortunately, the subject is very critical politically-wise and it will
remain so for ages, I would assume, expecially with the impact on the
web-service processes where either you come up with something as
powerful as cocoon's sitemap or you are doomed.

A general xml pipeline description language might just be a holy grail
or turn into a programming language.

Right now, the note proposed by Eve Maler and Norm Walsh (long time
contributors of the document-centric XML/SGML world) is a sort of 'ant
build file for xml processing'. Indeed powerful, but limited in scope
and many believe too document-oriented.

I wouldn't personally wait for such a standard to emerge soon. And even
if it does, I wouldn't bet it would allow us to replace our sitemap with

So, yes, we are breaking grounds (Cocoon is the *first* pipeline-based
XML engine. Period.) and I think we are even too further along the
road... which sometimes is a good thing, sometimes it's not.

Up to you to choose which one applies.

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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