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From Nicola Ken Barozzi <>
Subject Re: [RT] Flowmaps
Date Thu, 20 Jun 2002 11:55:20 GMT

Gerhard Froehlich wrote:
> Niclola,
>>>You can also do everything in JavaScript, but beware that you're moving
> the
>>>business logic in JavaScript, where it shouldn't be.
>>Where should it be then (not provocative, just a question I cannot
>>simply answer myself)?
>>I think that if we don't come up with a business-logic framework of some
>>sort, we will see programmers do the most wild things.
> Disagree, I wouldn't use it, when I don't have the freedom to code the
> flowscripts like *I* want them. Patterns OK, but please not again such a
> academic and not really usable thing like EJBs!

You are right.
EJBs are not really only business rules... I was thinking about 
something like ILog rules.

>>IMNSHO, Cocoon should be PnP, and not *require* java programming, ie no
>>compilation step.
> But I wouldn't ban it from the concept, IMO we would loose flexibility. Hmm
> maybe we can work with the BSF Framework
> (
> to get javascript implemented flowscripts integrated in our Java business
> logic. Like Parameters and stuff.

As I said, we should not *require*, that means that users should be 
given the choice, ie possibility of not using Java directly for business 

Business logic is more... well... logic than Java programming, and I 
think that for many needs Java is just overkill.

I want *also* something that is not Java that can help me make my 
business rules.

>>  Assuming that I want to make my business rules *without* java, what
>>can I use?
>>  Where do I put them?
>>  How do I organize them?
>>  Is there a repository for them?
>>  How do I use them in the flow?
>>  How do I make transactions?

This is the whole point: I'm talking as a generic "user".

I'm 100% sure that many users will use flowscript to make business logic.
If we tell them "use java", many will not.
If we give them also a business method system (markup, language, 
binding, whatever) they will use it.
If we don't, they will use flowscript.

Just as many use sitemaps for programming, but with flowscript, being it 
procedural, it will be even more.

Nicola Ken Barozzi         
             - verba volant, scripta manent -
    (discussions get forgotten, just code remains)

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