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From Sylvain Wallez <>
Subject Re: We need a detailed comparison with Struts
Date Tue, 11 Jun 2002 11:55:37 GMT
Piroumian Konstantin wrote:

>I have alsmost 2 years' experience in the XML (Cocoon) vs. JSP (Struts)
>fight in our company, wrote several documents related to
>Cocoon/Struts/Self-implemented framework comparison and I'd like to tell
>that all the arguments for Cocoon break on the following:
>	- Cocoon has portability problems while JSP is supported natively by
>many/several App Servers and some of them have Struts already integrated
>	- XSP is not standart while JSP has a specification, compatibility
>tests, etc.
>	- JSP is much more popular than XSP and there is a lot of general
>purpose JSP taglibs available

Do you think pushing the JSP integration would help Cocoon to have a 
better acceptance by looking "more standard" ?

>	- Cocoon changes to quick - we had a lot of problems with C1->C2 and
>that experience frightened our architects

Good point here. But can't we make the assumption that the C2 
architecture is solid and will last a long time ?

>	- Cocoon's codebase is much more complicated than Struts' and
>depends/uses a lot of 3rd party stuff

Right, but this 3rd party stuff (in lib/optional) is for features that 
Struts doesn't provide.

>	- Cocoon requires knowledge of many different technologies/things
>(Java/Servlets, XML, XSLT, XSP, Sitemap, JavaScript - for flow, and some
>others, optionally) while Struts is much simpler in usage and requires
>knowledge only of JSP/Servlets and has a relatively simple configuration
>file in XML.
>	- and at last, not every application needs multimedia output that is
>one of the coolest features of Cocoon

What about separation of concerns even for a non-multimedia application 
? Isn't this a cool feature also ?

>The above is not my personal opinion, but was gathered in a lot of
>discussions with my collegues and our experience either with Cocoon or

That's good you have an experience with both.

>My personal opinion is that if Cocoon had no compatibility problems (usually
>those are JAXP and classloader problems and rarely problems come from
>Cocoon's request/response abstractions) then it would be much better for any
>middle/high level of complexity web applications than Struts.
>  Konstantin
>P.S. I'll send a more detailed answer to the list if time allows and will
>answer all the listed questions. 

Cool !


Sylvain Wallez
  Anyware Technologies                  Apache Cocoon 

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