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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Links to commercial entities
Date Tue, 04 Jun 2002 09:11:39 GMT
Matthew Langham wrote:

> I discussed this with Sylvain and we both were not sure of the Apache side
> of things. Perhaps someone can comment on what is "allowed" in the sense of
> "tolerated". Thanks.

Ok, a few comments from an ASF member.

NOTE: this is *not* official. Only the ASF board can state something
officially about the ASF, but this is as official as I can get.

First, Apache pays back with visibility, recognition, respect, credits
and all the non-conservative resources that we can. Paying back with
non-conservative resources (those that the sum is not constrained,
unlike money) allows to remove friction from the communities that would
otherwise develop.

So, rule #1: as long as giving a resource to somebody doesn't remove
anything from somebody else, no friction will develop and we are all

Second, Apache is a realist entity. There is no such thing as 'absolute
freedom' (as some 'free software' persons advocate). In reality, you
can't eat 'non-conservative resources', well, until we don't have
startrek-like 'matter compilers', so there is an impedence mistmatch
that must somehow be solved.

We solved it by allowing people to 'use' their visibility (a
non-conservative resource) to obtain conservative resources (mostly
money, but also benefits, such as this very laptop that was kindly
donated to me some time ago).

Sure, there is the chance of 'abusing' this visibility. This the reason
why the Apache License prevents you from "stealing" due credits (and
avoid things like GNU/Linux debates) by abusing the name (you won't see
a 'RedHat Apache', that's for sure).

Still, there is no problem in letting people who deserve it to be listed
someplace in the site.

                              - o -

Now, this said: I personally don't have any problem in having a page
that lists companies that provide commercial services for Cocoon, as
long as they deserve it. Unfortunately, there is no such thing as an ASF
policy for those things and we are allowed to create our own.

So, I would like to propose that a commercial entity that want to be
listed on those pages *MUST* have submitted at least a patch in the CVS
at some point and *MUST* be voted in by the committers.

This should remove abuses and keep things sane.

What do you think?

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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