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From Diana Shannon <>
Subject Re: [vote] cocoon-docs
Date Thu, 09 May 2002 19:36:24 GMT
On May 9, 2002, Nicola Ken Barozzi wrote:

>> If it doesn't work, too bad, but at least we tried.... but this list is
>> focused on entirely different things and it's driven by psycological
>> fuel which is not the proper one for the other community to prosper.
> Ok, this makes sense, even if I don't understand what this other "fuel" 
> is.
> Maybe because no project on Apache I know of has a documentation list.

You're overlooking the apache-doc list. That list has been going on for 
a long time. Joshua Slive told me there were several hundred subscribers 
initially, but only a dozen or less active participants. He told me a 
good chunk, but certainly not all, of the core developers participated 
initially and still do. I should also note that the apache-doc list 
seems to concern itself primarily with core documentation and i18n 
efforts, not all of the granular, community-based contributions we are 

If you're interested, check out that lists' recent advice.

>> If you think about it, SoC is exactly that: let each one do its own 
>> job,
>> surrounded by the people that talk the same language, perceive the same
>> itches and like to share the scratching.
> I always thought that users where the ones with the documentation itch,
> hence my proposal for using that list.

You are absolutely right to stress the fact we need to utilize the user 
list for some of the effort.

>> With all my experience as a respected community builder, I honestly 
>> have
>> no idea if this cocoon-docs list is a good idea or not, but I *DO*
>> *KNOW* that it's a step in the different direction, a direction to
>> change the psycological substrate that might contain stuff that is
>> extremely energetic for a development community, but might well be
>> poison for other types of communities with different concerns.
> This "different concerns" about users and document writers puzzeles me, 
> and
> honestly I don't quite get it.

I think the main difference is that there are users who need to learn 
how to use Cocoon, and there are users who are ready to teach, even 
evangelize. *Many* of us are under training pressures to expand the use 
of Cocoon within our organizations. Others are fighting perception 
problems when we try to "sell" Cocoon to new clients. Why can't we 
consolidate our efforts in a fertile, focused place for the benefit of 
the entire community?

> XSP list was made for SOC, and it died, because that concern was *not*
> indipendent from the users' one. They kept on asking in the users' list.
> My feeling is that this is history repeating.

I don't think the "lifetime" of this kind of list is an appropriate 
indicator of its success. Success should be measured by how much it 
helps its subscribers get the job done.


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