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From David Crossley <>
Subject Re: Docs: next steps scratchpad and new mailing list
Date Sat, 04 May 2002 05:19:02 GMT
Diana Shannon wrote:
> David Crossley wrote:
> > To keep the documentation drive moving, there are a couple
> > of obvious next steps.
> It's moving ...

It sure is moving. Poor choice of words on my part. I meant to
say that there were a couple of fundamental things that needed
to be discussed and planned. When we are sure how we want
to do these things then we can call for a vote for implementation.
We use [VOTE] in the subject line, otherwise it is just discussion.

> ... I'm just sparing cocoon-dev the noisy details.

Looking forward to hearing your fine-tuned summaries.

> > A) Establish a new area under scratchpad for the Draft
> > documentation, probably at src/scratchpad/documentation/
> > I will start to investigate that, though i will certainly need help
> > with Cocoon's Ant build.xml files ... wow, they are complex.
> I've been thinking about it too. Perhaps we should talk off-list.

Actually, i think that on-list is the only way. Thousands of minds
in concert is better. Splinter groups do not work well, because
sooner or later someone forgets to Cc someone and it breaks.
They also unintentionally exclude some who could help.
Rather, well-chosen email subject lines with concise focus
does the trick ... others can choose to skim/skip whole threads.

> > B) Set up the new mail list cocoon-docs (or is it cocoon-doc).
> > I do not know how to go about that. However, i can see a
> > couple of issues already ...
> Can we wait just a second on this? How about deciding next week?  I'm 
> trying to contact people involved in existing document projects for 
> hints about starting out. A lot of doc projects die, particularly 
> list-based projects, and I just want to make *very sure* we're not 
> jumping the gun by migrating this very nascent effort off cocoon-dev 
> just yet.

Good idea Diana to wait and explore other projects. I am with you,
let us tread carefully. I was alerting so as to pre-empt some issues.
I have seen other lists start too quickly and not fully prepared.
They attract spam from day one, because of a simple mis-config
and are then doomed. I was trying to help build a list of issues.

> > - The list needs a moderator. I recently read from "apmail"
> > that all apache lists need moderation for first-time postings,
> > so as to eliminate spam opportunities. Or the list be set up
> > to automatically reject postings from those not subscribed.
> > Or a combination of both. We need to minimise the work here.
> >
> > - We should keep the list a little covert until we have set up
> > some procedures and guidelines, and we have the scratchpad
> > ready. Then we can use the announcement opportunity later
> > for more benefit.
> Yes, and it makes *no* sense to announce it until guidelines for 
> contributors are in place. I should have these ready soon, but I'm just 
> trying to be deliberate about it. Sorry. I have a *really* hard time 
> throwing up drafts expecting someone else to finish it for me.

However, here is one opensource mantra ...
Do not try to finish it yourself. Make a start, any start, get it out
to the open air, let everyone help, keep going at your own pace
even if no-one helps, commit to cvs often, someone will build it
to fruition even if you go away.

We appreciate your deliberateness. It will provide a better base
for discussion. Another mantra: do it any way you want. 

Anyway, i certainly do not want to rush you.

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