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From "Mikhail Fedotov" <>
Subject Re: continuation fear (was Re: [status & RT] design challenges)
Date Tue, 09 Apr 2002 09:47:14 GMT
> > Cocoon still loses users and it's very sad ;(
> I don't have statistics to back it up, but I believe
> Cocoon has more developers than ever. Just look at the
> number of different people writing on cocoon-dev
> nowadays. If at the same time the number of users
> declines, could that mean Cocoon is a tool for
> professional developers, not end users?

Is it comparable with struts/jsp users ? :)

I remember nice picture from Stefano's thesis about
saturation growth. Maybe figures and numbers from that
thesis will change situation a bit. That if they'll be put
on the main page ( in the first place
? Plus som link to articles like the one from IBM where
they were talking about their needs in xml for their site
(I don't remember exact url now), and so on.

I think that developers always know where too look for
important stuff. For developers, it is'n difficult to find
navigation on cocoon website. :)

It seems to be more important to prepare first page for
newcomers in doubt. How many of them cocoon2 is loosing now

Now there is "Apache Cocoon is an XML publishing framework
that raises the usage of XML and XSLT technologies for
server applications to a new level. Designed for
performance and scalability blah-blah-blah unimpressive

Why not to put there figures about saturation and words
that Cocoon2 technology delays that Saturation a bit and
allow developers use their potential more extensively,
blah-blah-blah again, for details on advantages look here,
for list technologies used click here, for details on our
technologis click here. Impressive pictures and words, and
enough quick links for both interested and not yet
interested visitors.

For example, part of text: "Cocoon interacts with most data
sources, including: filesystems, RDBMS, LDAP, native XML
databases, and network-based data sources"

That newcomers should think about too much those words - is
it too much or two little, is it good or bad, and that all
that buzzwords are for, is it put there as a warning or as
an advertising ? "HTML, WML, PDF, SVG, RTF just to name a
few" is good, but some could become curious why he can't
just install more advanced separate SVG/PDF/etc
editing/publishing programs and get the same ?

Marketing people know alot about life and how people choose
stuff. You can't ignore that and win. Look on Struts page
for the words Model-View-Controller in bold: almost
everybody have seen that word somewhere and respect it,
plus there links to Sun stuff... "Jakarta Project", "Apache
Software Foundation", "The official Struts page"... I don't
know who wrote this and for that reason, but they've got an
army of horses to drive new users just for those links and
highlights on top of their main page. Cocoon2 main page
seems weak and childish after that, really.

Imagine how many people don't like Cocoon's samples only
because they weren't motivated enough to download cocoon2
and check them out. :)


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