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From Berin Loritsch <>
Subject Re: HEADS UP - cocoon form handling (long!!)
Date Fri, 12 Apr 2002 15:29:58 GMT
Ivelin Ivanov wrote:
> <snip/>
>>Again, I agree.  Beans are high maintenance for, what is in this case,
>>little advantage.  I spent a week coming up with a bean framework for
>>a webapp, and had little progress on the webapp.  It is sad, but that
>>is what happened.  SOmetimes it is enough to have a maleable model and
>>let the form framework take care of the rest.
> Would you scetch an example of a non-trivial app which does not use
> JavaBeans?

With the current form validation and query building actions, we don't
need to abstract out the data model into an object structure.  All of my
applications are backed by a database.

What I have found to be a more compelling and natural mapping in the
Cocoon arena is DB to schema mapping.  I created some XSP logicsheets
that did this for me (using ESQL).

I spent considerably less time in the modeling in the application, got
the same functionality, and better performance.  Beans take up memory,
and each session requires its own set of beans.  You can take the
more difficult approach and model your bean access by session ID, or
you can have the session object store your beans.  Either way they take
up memory.

I know I am side-stepping your question, however I have not run into
a situation where I needed beans at all.  So your assumption that every
non-trivial application needs beans is not valid.

There is a huge difference between JavaBeans and Enterprise JavaBeans.
In fact the difference is so large the only commonality is that they
share the same last name (JavaBeans).  Even then, I assert that you
whould limit your Entity Beans to only what is necessary to get the
job done.  A full object model is unnecessary and wasteful.

What you invariably run into in the Cocoon world if you use beans is
a double mapping: DB to bean, and bean to schema.  That approach does
not scale well at all.  Not to meantion there are unnecessary
conversions that can be the source of problems.  KISS (Keep It
Simple Stupid).

Keep your memory lean.  Beans don't let that happen--or they force
you to be too smart for your own good.


"They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
  deserve neither liberty nor safety."
                 - Benjamin Franklin

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