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From "Mircea Toma" <>
Subject Re: [RT] Cocoon Blocks and internal web services
Date Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:18:54 GMT
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <>

> Mircea Toma wrote:
> > I'm not saying that Phoenix blocks should be used to implement "Cocoon
> > services", they are not meant for that. Cocoon could use Phoenix very
> > how James uses it (mailets), or if an app. server would be build using
> > Phoenix (ejb deployment). Building on top of Phoenix doesn't mean that
> > cannot have it's own packaging scheme, I think it should because it
> > different concerns (web related).
> Ok, I see your point now.
> > ......
> > > In case you don't want the installer to go around shopping for this,
> >
> > This is an example of what a Phoenix service could do for Cocoon. Going
> > around and shop for blocks is not a web related service but a deployment
> > service thus easily implemented using a Phoenix block.
> Absolutely. I'm not saying that Cocoon shouldn't be Phoenix-aware or
> Phoenix friendly, rather the opposite, but these are completely separate
> concerns.

Yes, they are.

> > Things like: XML database, search engine, object store, servlet&JSP
> > or Cocoon container are well suited to be implemented as Phoenix blocks.
> In fact, Cocoon itself (with no cocoon blocks on top) can well be seen
> as one Avalon Block, but be easily integrated into Phoenix.

This was my point.
Cocoon container can focuse on managing webapp level components by using
Phoenix blocks/services (non web-related services like a ServletEngine or
XML db) not containing and managing them as it stands now.

> > Of course they would be different, and they should be. All I'm saying is
> > Cocoon blocks would be deployed into a service (not web service)
> > framework like Phoenix is, where Cocoon container would be just another
> > Phoenix service.
> No, this is what I *don't* like. A cocoon block is not an extension of
> an Avalon block, but it's a totally different thing.

I'm not saying that Cocoon blocks are an extension of Phoenix blocks.
Phoenix blocks would provide container (kernel) services for Cocoon, thus
providing deployment and assembly services for Cocoon blocks.

> > Please have a look at how James uses Phoenix, or how HP app. server uses
> > their core service framework (very similar to Phoenix).
> > Source code is available at:
> >
> I'm all in favor of using/reusing Phoenix where it does make sense, but

Glad to hear that.
I volunteer to help with this!

> I don't think it does at this webapp level.

I don't think that either. I guess this misunderstaning is due to me
sidetracking the discussion thread.


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