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From Jeremy Quinn <>
Subject Re: Dynamic Schematron validation works!
Date Sun, 17 Mar 2002 10:47:31 GMT
At 1:23 pm -0600 16/3/02, Ivelin Ivanov wrote:
>As Torsten suggested, shall we please try to agree on the requirements for
>the problem we're trying to solve.
>Starting with something non-trivial, but not too comlex as well. Just enough
>to demonstrate good potential and allow for further extension.

Hi Ivelin,

Not wanting to be negative or anything ... but we have quite different
approaches driven by different needs, we may or may not be able to
reconcile them.

It does not really matter right now, we will _all_ learn from both attempts

What I mean more specifically:

As I understand it .... you re trying to make a generic system (partially
influenced by previous work done attempting to implement the XForms
standard) for building complex business objects.

Furthermore you are trying to make your _sitemap_ adapt itself to the
progress of the transaction.

I on the other hand am trying to make generic patterns for assembling
sitemap and XSLT components, as an example of how to add the ability to
edit your own existing assets, to an existing publishing project.

What's more, I am implementing my logic differently; by having transformers
modify the _content_ of the pipeline to adapt to the progress of the

Both techniques are very interesting in their own right!

If I had access to the stuff you are doing now, 12 months ago, I'd be
dancing in the streets! It was JUST what I wanted for the Crudlet project I
was working on, where we had large and complex JavaBeans to fill in and
manipulate, requiring multiple forms to do the job.

If you were to follow my pattern (which I am not suggesting, this is just
an illustration) you would:

1. Generate an Instance
	using XSP or RequestGenerator + XSLT etc.

2. Validate the Instance.
	using the delightful Schematron (thanks!)

3. Adapt the Instance (depending on validation result) into tags for a
CastorTransformer, which makes/modifies/prods your bean.

4. Adapt the Instance (depending on Castor result) into whatever your next
stage needs to be


I do not think we are duplicating effort.
I think both of these efforts will (at the very least) prove to be useful
examples for other developers, regardless of the final outcome.

As long as we keep sharing our ideas publicly (as has happened to great
effect so far!) we have a win-win situation.

I am not convinced that one pattern can solve every problem in this realm
.... there is still a lot to explore ....

Thanks for your help so far!

regards Jeremy

   Jeremy Quinn                                           Karma Divers
                                                       webSpace Design
                                            HyperMedia Research Centre

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