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From "Robert S. Koberg" <>
Subject Re: Wyona / Xopus (IE vs.Mozilla)
Date Sat, 09 Mar 2002 22:21:45 GMT

Stefano Mazzochi wrote:
> Matthew Langham wrote:
>  >
>  > > "Mozilla can now be used as a content editor" but could be "we
>  > > have a content editor, and the code is based on Mozilla, by the way".
>  > >. . .
>  >
>  > This I like. An XML Content Editor as a separate application based on
>  > Mozilla code.
>  >
>  > I was pointing out that Cocoon is being widely used in environments 
> where MS
>  > IE is the browser running on the client - so a solution that would 
> only run
>  > _inside_ a Mozilla browser would lock out a lot of potential.
>  >
>  > Sounds like a new project to me.

Yes, much more potential than a mozilla based app. We are not even 
talking about Netscape, just mozilla...  I hope Stefano can help to get 
contentEditable to work in mozilla, but it *has* to work the same as IE.

>  3) I believe that element-granular editing behavior provides the best
> solution (unlike fully WYSIWYG editors like Frontpage, Mozilla's
> Composer or IE hotmail-like <iframe>s)

This does not work for anything other than simple editing.

>  4) Currently only IE 5.5+ implements this using the
> contentEditable='true' attribute on every element. Mozilla has scheduled
> such a feature for version 1.1 to be released in July. See
> [please, go there and vote for that bug so that it ends up in the tree
> faster!]

I voted!

>  5) Xopus uses contentEditable="true" as a in-place editing widget and
> adds a layer of driving logic based on client side XML/XSLT/XMLSchema to
> implement MVC. This is a possible solution but, for sure, not the only
> one. The same processing (creating a editing controlling javascript for
> the page) can be done on the server side. No, Ugo, we don't need to do
> it on the client side.

ughhh, way to slow - too many trips to the server. I thought Xopus uses 
an ActiveX to control the editing. I could not even see their pages 
because I don't not browse the internet with them on anymore (especially 
sites made by guys like you :)

> I fully believe that once mozilla implements contentEditable that can be
> controlled via javascript, the rest is just a matter of writing the
> DHTML (or, even better, XUL/XBL-based pages) that drives the process.
> I've done it for IE and it's not that hard.
> Also, I believe that there is no need for XSLT on the client side (CSS
> styling is enough for most inline editing needs, since the hard-core
> transformations normally don't happen at the content level but at the
> page structure level, which is normally *never* edited this way!)

Yes, totally agree

> So, the best solution I see is:
>  1) both IE 5.5+ and mozilla 1.1 implement something like
>   <div contentEditable="true">
>    edit text here...
>   </div>

This won't work unless you have extremely simple DIVs. What happens when 
you want to edit bold text or a link in the DIV? By setting 
contentEditable to true at the DIV level everything that is not 
explicitly set to contentEditable=false will be editable. And wouldn't 
you want this? E.g.

    <SPAN CLASS="title">
       My Title
       The para text with <STRONG>bold</STRONG> and <A HREF="#">links</A>.

Or are you saying you make editable 'islands' on the page set of by each 
styling of a XML content piece into an editable DIV?
A serendipitous feature I have noticed is the ability to cut and paste 
from a text, html, Word (etc) doc. The IE browser parses it (sometimes 
for a long time...) and throughs it on the page as best it can. You just 
need to know what it throughs down and parse/freshTrip it back to your 
XML strucutre and send it to the server.
One other thing:
MACR is about to release the next version of Flash with much better XML 
parsing speed (better than v.5). You *could* create a one pixel flash 
movie and use that to control logic, flow, aggregation on the 
client-side. [just joking :)].



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