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From "Robert Koberg" <>
Subject Re: Wyona / Xopus (IE vs.Mozilla)
Date Fri, 15 Mar 2002 23:50:03 GMT

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <>
> Robert Koberg wrote:

> > ><snip/>
> > >
> > >
> > >Yes, more or less, but semi-structure at the editing level is
> > >what we need: less freedom than Word but more freedom than forms, all
> > >without moving from your browser.
> > >
> > >
> > >>>And this is *NOT* currently possible in any browser in the world!
> > >>>
> > >>I must be missing something.
> > >>
> > >
> > >My experience indicates that it's not possible to use contenteditable
> > >without sacrificing some layout changes due to the rectangular-ness of
> > >the implementation.
> > >
> > >I'm not saying it's not possible *at all* (it is, in fact) but that
> > >isn't good enough for my quality standards (and my girlfriend's, she's
> > >even more picky than I am... even a pixel off when I turn
> > >contenteditable on and she screams!)
> > >
> > I am with her (and you, but she is probably more attractive :). I don't
tolerate pixel shifts (from my CDROM days...).  I don't have the experience
of contentedtiable changing my layout, though. When we added our visual
rollover indicator (dashed border on rollover of an editbale region) it
shifts by the size of the border. We *fixed* that by swapping a background
color border with the dashed one. That is the only thing. The tool is,
however, in complete control of the HTML written on the page during editing.
We are not trying to make this work with just any HTML.
> unlike I'm trying to do :)

I see your dilema. But why do you need to keep  the original HTML (most
likely   poorly written and mixing structure with presentation)? You would
make your life easier if you set up your contenteditable HTML regions like:

<div class="article">
   <span class="wide">
        <div class="title">My title</div>
        <div class="para">My paragraph</div>
        <span class="section">
            <div class="title">My title</div>
            <div class="para">My paragraph</div>
        <span class="section">
            <div class="title">My title</div>
            <div class="para">My paragraph</div>
            <ul class="unordered_list">
                <li class="list_item">blah blsah</li>
                <li class="list_item">blah blsah</li>

this allows for two main things:
1.) separation of your HTML structure from your presentation
2.) as you roundtrip your HTML to XML you can just grab the elements with
your particular class names which turn into the XML node name.


> > As I mentioned earlier, I intend to set up my storyboarding tool to
> > export a cocoon site, but the tool itself is not in cocoon.
> Ok, but would you make it open source?

We want to do that. There are a few reasons we do not want to do that right
- Right now we want to be in complete control
- We want to build a consulting company around the product first
- if someone offered us US$5,000,000 we would take it (VC money is back...)

Reality, tending to occur, would probably tell me that 'you ain't gettin no
5mil' :) So most likely (by the time mozilla has contenteditable??) we will
make this Open Source (in 6 months or so, perhaps sooner)?? I do feel we
would benefit by opening it up sooner rather than later. I do discuss our
way openly.


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