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From "Ivanov, Ivelin" <Ivelin_Iva...@bmc.com>
Subject RE: Cocoon, XForms, ExFormula, Chiba, Struts, etc
Date Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:43:37 GMT

That sounds good.

We've used Castor for successfully binding heavy XML traffic. 
Have you coordinated efforts with the folks that started ExFormula. 
I see that Chris is still active on the Cocoon list.

The reason why I am opening this subject again is 
because I think it can add significant value to Cocoon.
I am prepared to put some time working on this.

Please let me know if we should keep this discussion in the dev mailing
list.

So, as briefly as I can, I'll share my experience and ideas:

For those who haven't used Struts:
It is a succesful Apache project (http://jakarta.apache.org/struts) which
automates the task of mapping html forms to value objects used in an
application domain.
It's expected to influence directly the following JSRs:
JavaServer Faces JSR: http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/127.jsp
JSP 1.4 JSR: http://jcp.org/jsr/detail/152.jsp

If it's so good, why are you posting on this list ?

Struts is great with HTML forms. However it doesn't deal nor it plans
to deal with any other sort of media.

It doesn't take into perspective web services for example.
We want to reuse the interface layer for SOAP clients as well.
For some time now our project had pending requirements for web services
support.
We want to let other companies integrate with our portal. 
A reason why we keep pushing this requirement off
is that it can't happen easy. All our external interface have been tied to
JSP+Struts. Since we want to allow customers to do through web services 
what they could do through the regular Web UI, we'll need to write a brand
new 
interface layer. We won't be able to reuse the automatic population and
validation
that we have for the HTML interface.

Being a Cocoon newbie, I might be totally wrong, but
it appears that the current Cocoon architecture is
also focused towards HTML form validation (through
rules for HTTP POST/GET params), but it also does not
try to deal with other media like SOAP.

Last October there has been an interesting discussion
on the Cocoon mailing list about integrating server
side XForms. 
I found it quite interesting, because based on my
experience I do believe there is a farely good chance
that XForms (or some limited version) can be
successfully integrated in Cocoon so that data
validation and java binding code (two way: web client
<-> XML <-> Java domain objects) can be easily reused
for clients ranging from HTML to SOAP. I also believe
that this can be achieved with a sufficiently high
performance (in many cases the WebClient <->
JavaObjects transformation can be achieved without
necessarily going through naive XML representation. 
Instead using SAX events and JAXB ).

Additionally data validation can be probably achieved elegantly
through parser (xerces2) validation against XML Schema.

Berin, Chris, Torsten and others seem to have made similar observation 
and have therefore started ExFormula last year. 
Chiba looks promising too. 


Can we try to unify and finish the job started, so that Cocoon moves to the
next level.


I'm all ears !



	-= Ivelin =-

-----Original Message-----
From: Thorsten Mauch [mailto:mauch@imkenberg.de]
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 7:49 AM
To: 'cocoon-users@xml.apache.org'
Subject: AW: Cocoon, XForms, ExFormula,, Struts, etc


Hi
we are working on a integeration from 
cocoon chiba and castor-xml
http://sourceforge.net/projects/chiba/

we like to use castor to perform
the data exchange automaticly.
Beside this we wrote some basic
actions to handle Xforms request.

I hope that you will see a basic
version of that in the Chiba CVS



-----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
Von: Ivanov, Ivelin [mailto:Ivelin_Ivanov@bmc.com]
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 13. Februar 2002 06:49
An: 'cocoon-users@xml.apache.org'
Betreff: Cocoon, XForms, ExFormula,, Struts, etc



Hi,

After using successfully JSPs+Struts for a relatively big enterprise
project, I've grown to appreciate the MVC model, but have also found some
places where it can be improved.

Before starting a long discussion, I'm first just looking for a short answer
to the following question:

Does Cocoon 2 have a mechanism for achieving automatic Form population and
validation, similar to Struts ?

I've noticed that in the project archive XForms and ExFormula have been
discussed on a number of ocasions, but they've been integrated in C2. Am I
wrong?

I will appreciate a prompt response.

Thank you.

-= Ivelin Ivanov =-




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