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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [provocative] crushing userland
Date Fri, 15 Feb 2002 22:41:24 GMT
Matt Sergeant wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2002, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > Matt Sergeant wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, 14 Feb 2002, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > >
> > > > Dave said that Apache is the only real alternative to .NET... if only
> > > > had a serious CMS.... ihihih, oh, he's so right on this :)
> > >
> > > He's so wrong it hurts. There are many very serious CMS's built on top of
> > > Apache.
> >
> > But ASF project for that.
> >
> > That's the point.
> So invite one in. Bricolage is looking particularly spectacular.

no offense to anyone, but my level of 'spectacularity' is much higher
than that. And believe me, I'm working to show you what I mean in the

> Alternatively maybe I should ask why? Does everything have to be an ASF
> project? It's not like I'm talking about closed source efforts.

Here is my reasoning: the Apache communities tend to collaborate more
with projects hosted *inside* than hosted outside the ASF.

I see this increasing as the amount of tools (gump, forrest) grows and
the technical infrastructure glues projects more tightly.

As Sam puts it, cross-pollination between communities is the key for
massive growth and there is very little cross-pollination between the
CMS world and the ASF, until very recently (say 3/4 months).

Dave said this 18 months ago in a public discussion with Brian and, at
that time, Cocoon wasn't powerful enough to aspire to become part of a
serious CMS.

And I think we are still missing things (mostly componentized cocoon
webapps and flowmaps), but I'd like to use Forrest as a way to indicate
the direction.... and to gather consensus and inertia to the process.

Then, it will be a pleasure to prove Dave right and crush Userland
alltogether :)

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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