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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: Heads Up: Cocoon and Web Services
Date Wed, 13 Feb 2002 21:45:11 GMT wrote:


> Cocoon as web service server
> Ok, this is where it gets more interesting. Here is basically what _we_
> need:
> Publish a pipeline (set of pipelines) as a web service accessible via
> SOAP and providing a self-description in WSDL.

Hmmm, starting saying that I know almost nothing about the internal WSDL
semantics (yes, I know, my fault, but web services simply don't tickle
me, what can I say?)... where could you obtain the information you need?

I mean, wouldn't this integrated into java code that implements the
logic of your code? or could be be guessed from, say: sitemap +
introspecting logical elements (say, actions)?

Just curious.
> Apart from the last part (which I really think is just as important as
> the first - if we think Cocoon can become a platform for WS) there are
> several approaches that would probably work:
> * Use XSL in a pipeline that interprets the SOAP request and then passes
> off to the appropriate pipeline

> * Use the Kinga/HP approach of the Adapter/Dispatcher model with
> additional SOAP stuff

-0, which is not a negative vote because I think kinga spent lots of
time on this, but this needs much more reasoning.
> * Integrate Axis

even better:

work with the Axis guys directly about what they see the best way to
integrate the two projects (if any! we can't assume this is a good thing
from a technical/architectural point of view... community-wise I think
it is)
> Personally I think we should be looking at working with the Axis project
> and integrating it into Cocoon. Here are my reasons:
> * They are hard at work on the interop side of web services
> * The architecture is flexible and uses SAX
> * The architecture allows you to hook in nearly everywhere (handlers, pivots,...)
> * You get tools for free
> * It's Apache :-)

I can't say anything more :)
> Now, I do not (yet?) understand enough about the current Axis code and I
> am now quite a bit removed from actually implementing (as Carsten likes
> to remind me) to start to give any roadmap as to how it would be
> possible - but here are a few ideas.
> The first step would be to install the Axis servlet parallel to the
> Cocoon servlet and write a service, handler, pivot that can bridge into
> Cocoon. One simple way would be to hook into the SOAP processing and
> call the relevant pipeline based on what is sent. Later we could then
> merge the servlets so that we only have one endpoint. But then again
> having it seperate may allow better scalability.

Hmmmm, this *cries* for porting Axis to Avalon and use Cocoon as a
component. :)

> Ok, so then how can we publish a pipeline as WSDL? Well perhaps we can
> use Views for that. Something like a WebService view that the bridging
> class can then turn into WSDL. Axis allows WSDL generation on the fly if
> you append "?wsdl" to the URI. So maybe something there would work.

Views would be ideal for this.

> It is not that I don't think the HP solution is a good idea and perhaps
> it fits Cocoon even better than Axis would. However at the moment I
> would be very interested in how the HP solution caters for stuf like
> WSDL. Does it?
> I know I am repeating this but: If we think Cocoon can move in this
> direction then we really really need some way of generating WSDL from a
> set of pipelines.
> Imagine firing up Visual Studio .Net and being able to generate a Visual
> Basic program that can call a Cocoon pipeline - just by accessing the
> WSDL that the pipeline has provided.

Yes, good marketing stuff for sure.

I still have to see how this works in real life, though.

But don't comment on this, I still have to see the light on this

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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