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From Stefano Mazzocchi <stef...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Cocoon Logo
Date Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:57:24 GMT
David Crossley wrote:
> 
> Many thanks Stefano for taking the time to explain the
> rationale behind a new logo. 

You're welcome.

> You have presented very
> sound technical, usability, and design reasons. 

Really? thanks :) I thought I was just sick of answering "that the heck
is that" for the first logo :)

> I am now swayed towards the new logo.

Good.

> The gist of my original email was to be sure that the Cocoon
> logo portrays the wonderful product that it is. 

Don't forget SoC! Is portraying the beauty of a product a logo's
concern?

I wouldn't think so. A "logo", by definition, is a visual identifier.

A couple of inches below this very line I have "SONY" written on my VAIO
laptop screen. It this stating anything about the "quality" of my
hardware system?

> It needs to hint at the metamorphic processes inside. 

Oh, yeah, that's what the word "cocoon" is for :)

Seriously: there are logos which are incredibly cool-looking and
wonderfully effective. My favorites are the former SGI logo, the new
Apple logo and the Nike logo. Another absolutely great logo is the Euro
sign.

And none of them give the slightest indication of what they were for
"until" you associated them with the product and *then* it turns into a
strong identifier.

> For me, the new logo
> does not yet do that. It is the "00 eyes" that ruin it for me,
> giving it a cartoon appearance and adding no benefit.

As I explained in my previous message, it was intentional to give some
strident look to the thing.

> How about retaining the dots inside each "O" - i think that they
> do indicate that there is activity inside the cocoons. However,
> they should be all right-handed (i.e. get rid of the eyes).
> Then we could have another animated logo where those dots
> (i.e. the chrysalids) started some shape-changing (perhaps as
> an advanced SVG demo).

I'm open to question the logo, as long as the 
 
> It sounds like a silly conversation now. 

No, it's not. I think that part of what made Apache what it is was the
logo: in a land of brand-less software, Apache had a *clear* graphical
identity.... but again, no indication of what it was for.

Same thing for Linux's Tux. Or the BSD devil. (even if I personally
don't like those logos, too visually complex: an identifier should make
you think, it should be the most obvious thing in the world).

> However, i think that it was good to work throught our reasons for the choice.

Yes.
 
> In English, the word "Cocoon" means a protective envelope
> spun by various insects to serve as a covering while they
> are in the chrysalis state. I think that the new logo needs to
> capitalise on the imagery of that magical process.

This is my personal SoC of the visibility issue:

1) a logo -> gives identity
2) a mascotte -> gives characther
3) a tagline -> gives context
4) a motto -> gives direction

I still don't have a final opinion if a complete separation of these is
a good thing or not, but I'm sure that it's far better to separate
concerns rather than making poorer choices because of concerns are
forced to overlap.

In our case, the concept of 'metamorphosis'(transformation + evolution +
protection + incubation + reshaping) is a *very* powerful one indeed and
it would be a shame to waste, but I don't think a logo is necessarely
the place for this. From the list above, the 'tagline' or 'motto' seem
to be better places to show this concept off.

Of course, I'd be very happy to be presented with a logo that is simple,
usable on all media and all cases, distinguished, peculiar and yet able
to describe the 'metamorphosis' concept.

But I personally have the impression that it would end up going in the
linux direction (the Tux pinguin, too weak as a mascotte and too complex
as a logo) so maybe keeping concerns separated is easier and more
efficient, expecially for communities like ours where lack of visual
artistic skills are notorious :)

-- 
Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<stefano@apache.org>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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