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From David Crossley <>
Subject Re: Cocoon Logo
Date Tue, 01 Jan 2002 13:01:23 GMT
Many thanks Stefano for taking the time to explain the
rationale behind a new logo. You have presented very
sound technical, usability, and design reasons. I am now
swayed towards the new logo.

The gist of my original email was to be sure that the Cocoon
logo portrays the wonderful product that it is. It needs to hint
at the metamorphic processes inside. For me, the new logo
does not yet do that. It is the "00 eyes" that ruin it for me,
giving it a cartoon appearance and adding no benefit.

How about retaining the dots inside each "O" - i think that they
do indicate that there is activity inside the cocoons. However,
they should be all right-handed (i.e. get rid of the eyes).
Then we could have another animated logo where those dots
(i.e. the chrysalids) started some shape-changing (perhaps as
an advanced SVG demo).

It sounds like a silly conversation now. However, i think
that it was good to work throught our reasons for the choice.

In English, the word "Cocoon" means a protective envelope
spun by various insects to serve as a covering while they
are in the chrysalis state. I think that the new logo needs to
capitalise on the imagery of that magical process.

All the best to everyone for 2002+

Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> giacomo wrote:
> > David Crossley wrote:
> > > Whatever happened to the wonderful original Cocoon1 Logo?
> > > It is excellent, as it depicts some wonderful metamorphosis
> > > swirly bits happening inside. This indicates to me the pipelines
> > > and matches that are happening inside Apache Cocoon
> > > to produce the magical result that emerges.
> > >
> > >
> > > In my opinion, the current C2 logo is very ordinary and
> > > even cartoon-like.
> > >
> > >
> > > Is there any possibility to bring back the old logo?
> > > I tried to search the email archives, but did not find any
> > > previous discussion on changing to the new one.
> > 
> > I don't remember why there has been introduced a new cocoon logo for
> > version 2. Well, the site tells us that it has to do with "evidence the
> > new course"
> > 
> > Maybe Stefano can give us more background information why the old
> > one wasn't good enough and maybe can vote here about it.
> > 
> > 1.
> > 
> > 2.
> > 
> > Personally I like the 1. best.
> There never was a formal votation on this so I think it's right to do it
> now.
> I designed and implemented both logos, so I don't have ego problems.
> The Cocoon1 logo works well on screens but sucks on any other media,
> mostly low-res displays (pda, cell phones), on laser printers (it uses
> too many shades of colors), on printed books, on tshirts, on mugs, on
> stickers, etc.
> Besides, it didn't give us a clear identity nor gave us reusable
> artistic elements.
> Moreover, the filter effect used is not part of the standard SVG suite
> so the logo cannot be vectorized in SVG.
> These were enough reasons, in my vision, to work on an entirely new
> logo.
>                                    - o -
> The second logo was designed using SVG, so it is *very* unfair to
> compare the above two logos. Also because the first logo was designed
> for a light background (at the days), while the second
> with a dark background (to match the blue-shades of
> topbar)
> Please, see for a
> better example of use. Or directly download the SVG source from CVS
> (xml-cocoon2/resources/orig/cocoon2.svg)
> Moreover, it was designed with the intention to give a clear readable
> indication logo. 
> Think of a blue baseball cap, or a polo t-shirt, which logo would be
> most recognizable in an apachecon or comdex crowd?
> Think of "Nasa" caps or FBI yellow-on-blue T-Shirts: simple logos are
> those who stay. If we can also add graphical signs to text, it's even
> better (think of IBM, Microsoft, Sun, Oracle, all of them have one logo
> with text + a recognized shape or graphical element)
> Even more, the Cocoon1 logo looked more like a 'calzascarpe' (italian
> word for a tool that helps wearing tight shoes!!) than a cocoon. I was
> sick and tired of having people asking me "what the heck is supposed to
> be?". (non-english people normally ignore the fact that "cocoon" is an
> actual word and not only a movie title, yes, almost 99% of them, even if
> fluent english speakers.)
> But it's not over: the two 'o's with the little dots inside look like
> two eyes. This gives us a "very appealing" graphical sign for a
> character, a mascotte or something equivalent and the "n" with one side
> sharp and the other rounded, gives us another graphical element that we
> can easily reuse around the site. (something that neither IBM nor Sun
> nor Microsoft can do, unless IBM wants all fonts to be dotted :)
> Besides, it's extremely simple yet it has a very specific look that
> stands out (unlike the first logo which stood out only because colorful)
> This said, I think the Cocoon1 logo reflects the status of the Cocoon1
> codebase: people still use it and like it because Cocoon2 is not yet up
> to dethrone it, but it's doomed for future uses so we must have change
> it now that we can.
> So, of course, my vote goes for the new logo.
> -- 
> Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
>                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
> --------------------------------------------------------------------

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