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From giacomo <giac...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [vote] Finer-grained logging categories (was: Re: Over-Logging)
Date Sat, 29 Dec 2001 12:05:16 GMT
On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Sylvain Wallez wrote:

>
>
> giacomo a écrit :
> >
> > On Fri, 28 Dec 2001, Sylvain Wallez wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Torsten Curdt a écrit :
> > > >
> > > > > Now that I am back working with Cocoon, I have recently come to the
conclusion that DEBUG
> > > > > simply outputs too much information.  For one (1) request, Cocoon
outputs 23 pages of
> > > > > log messages equivalent to 57k on the drive.
> > > > >
> > > > > My friends, this is too much.  Logging should have a purpose, and
not simply spout information
> > > > > for information's sake.  I am trying to track down what is going
on in the XSP engine,
> > > > > and I have to sift through 57k of messages.
> > > >
> > > > I like to second that
> > > >
> > > > > Principal of Diminishing Returns
> > > > > --------------------------------
> > > > > It is important to understand the principal of diminishing returns.
 Basically, it boils
> > > > > down to the concept that 90% correctness only takes 10% of the effort.
 It is that last
> > > > > 10% of correctness that takes up the remaining 90% of the effort.
 Our logging has reached
> > > > > critical mass.  By logging anything and everything, we have an unusable
mess.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am not sure what needs to be done.  Some categories need to be
logged, while others
> > > > > do not.  It all depends on what you are tracking down.  We need to
have more folks
> > > > > understand the LogKit configuration file, so that we can have a much
finer grained
> > > > > control.  Since it is a major point of Cocoon's configuration Cocoon
needs to document
> > > > > it in the xdocs.  The inline comments are not very clean, perhaps
we need separators
> > > > > that demarcate the beginning and ends of the comments.
> > >
> > > What do you mean by "separators that demarcate..." ? A special formatter
> > > that adds linefeeds in the log file ?
> > >
> > > We may also remove some debug messages : many of them were used to debug
> > > components during their writing, and they aren't useful anymore now that
> > > they are stable.
> > >
> > > > So you like to get rid of this mess by configuring logkit?
> > > >
> > > > Actually I'm wondering if we have enough categories
> > > > to really get back to a fine grained control this way.
> > >
> > > We can add more categories : in my sitemaps, each component has a
> > > different category (using the "logger" attribute) :
> > >
> > > sitemap.generator.file
> > > sitemap.generator.directory
> > > sitemap.generator.serverpages
> > > sitemap.transformer.xslt
> > > sitemap.transformer.log
> > > sitemap.serializer.xml
> > > sitemap.serializer.html
> > > sitemap.matcher.wildcard
> > > ...
> >
> > This is what it was originally proposed to be used for. I wasn't willing
> > to go this far for the version we distribute with the CVS and releases
> > but we can vote to have this in CVS.
> >
> > > This leads to a fine-grained hierarchical classification of categories
> > > which allows to easily track messages in a particular area. This is also
> > > applicable to components in cocoon.xconf.
>
> OK. TEAM, your votes about adding fine-grained categories in
> sitemap.xmap and cocoon.xconf as described above ?
>
> +1 from me.

+1

> >
> > Do you log those messages  into one file or different file (prob. one
> > per category?)
>
> I use two targets : one file for all messages, and a target I've written
> for a commercial swing GUI (see
> http://www.servidium.com/site/logfactor5/index.html) which has a nice
> handling of log hierarchies.
>
> Fine-grained categories allows to quickly find messages output by a
> particular component and having a single file allows to easily consult
> other related logs (e.g. all log messages for a given request).

No flooding of many different files for each category seems ok for me.

> > > If you like this approach, I can add it in the CVS.
> >
> > I'm not sure about it so +0.
> >
> > > The only drawback is that LogKit complains about categories not
> > > explicitly declared in logkit.xconf. Maybe LogKit shouldn't be so picky
> > > about that and just act as a configuration front-end to Hierarchy (i.e.
> > > remove the m_loggers HashMap).
> >
> > This can be fixed (I wrote it) but IIRC it's a debugging (or should
> > be) message and thus might be helpfull in that aspect.
>
> I would be thankful if you fix it, because it produces a _warning_
> message each time a component asks for a logger that's not in the
> configuration-defined categories.

Ok, I've reduced from WARN to DEBUG and will commit it soon into C2.

Giacomo

>
> > Giacomo
> >
> > >
> > > Thoughts ?
> > >
> > > Sylvain.
> > >
> > > > --
> > > > Torsten
> > > >
> > >
>


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