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From giacomo <giac...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Forrest (a.k.a. xml.apache.org 2.0)
Date Wed, 19 Dec 2001 06:12:56 GMT
On Wed, 19 Dec 2001, David Crossley wrote:

> Giacomo Pati wrote:
> > David Crossley wrote:
> > > Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> > >
> > > > 3) layout
> > > > ---------
> > > >
> > > > The layout previously proposed on this list was a solution to the speed
> > > > problem but I couldn't adapt it to the depth needs identified in the
> > > > rest of the goals.
> > > >
> > > > So, I resurrected my rusty web design skills and came up with the layout
> > > > you find attached. I've tested it on IE 5.5, NS 4.78 and Moz 0.9.5 on
> > > > win2k.
> > > >
> > > > Feedback, suggestions and criticisms are appreciated.
> > >
> > > This is really great that you have taken this on Stefano,
> > > many thanks. We will all help where we can.
> > >
> > > I used "View source" to look behind-the-scenes and i see
> > > that there are still tables embedded within tables embedded
> > > within other tables. I think that this will again lead to troubles
> > > on some browsers with the larger documents.
> > >
> > > I realise that there may be a need to use one table to achieve
> > > the left-hand columns. However, i would like us to minimise the
> > > need for embedded tables, especially in the main text panel.
> >
> > Minimization is the key. Mostly you can build the initial layout using
> > three tables:
> >
> > +----------------------+
> > !       HEADER         !
> > +----------------------+
> > +---+------------------+
> > ! N !                  !
> > ! A !                  !
> > ! V !                  !
> > ! - !  CONTENT  !
> > ! B !                  !
> > ! R !                  !
> > ! R !                  !
> > +---+------------------+
> > +----------------------+
> > !       FOOTER         !
> > +----------------------+
> >
> > You can divide the HEADER and FOOTER table into more columns if needed.
> > You can also divide the NAV-BAR table into more rows as needed. But then
> > the CONTENT part is still where tables will be nested.
> >
> > IMO this is the most seedy and portable way to support even older
> > browsers.
> >
> > Giacomo
>
> The CONTENT column of the main table has been the real
> worry in the past.

I know :) but many sites only use *one* table to achieve the above which
(at least for older browsers) result in a need to have the hole page
downloaded prior to have it displayed in the browser. This above layout
can display the header as soon as it is available in the browser. This
way you don't have to wait in front of a blank screen too long.

> This is where i have seen deeply embedded
> tables used. I presume that Cocoon was doing it do achieve
> the effect of fancy section headings with background colour
> and corner images. I would like us to return to simple HTML
> with <h*> headings and <blockquote> tags.

Sure, +1.

> Even the NAV-BAR column can do without embedded tables
> by using <ul> lists (see the Avalon website).

Sure, or have it use multiple rows of that NAV-BAR/CONTENT table and
have the CONTENT part span all those rows (admittedly this might be
difficult to achieve for dynamic navbars).

Giacomo

> --David
>
>
>
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