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From "Tom Klaasen (TeleRelay)" <>
Subject RE: [OT] Design Rant
Date Fri, 21 Dec 2001 09:44:38 GMT
Hey, I'm not going to fight The System, I'm just giving my opinion.

And for a clear understanding: I'm not fighting anybody, just giving my
opinion. I understand that there are practicalities that always stand in
the way of our dreams. But the least (and probably the only thing) I can
do is shout at them... maybe they get scared away.

Weird though, that we're facing so much "legacy" lately (we have to
support NS4, we have to keep using jdk1.2, we have to use mod_whatever),
and that for a framework that tries to give a solution to exactly these

Maybe we'll have to run C2 on or something, if it stands
there ATM, we haven't to be afraid of security anymore ;-)

"Entropy is just a fact of life" IIRC ... but it ain't pleasant.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefano Mazzocchi [] 
> Sent: donderdag 20 december 2001 17:39
> To:
> Subject: Re: [OT] Design Rant
> "Tom Klaasen (TeleRelay)" wrote:
> > Time to show the world what Cocoon is really worth!
> Please, Tom, a little todo list for you:
> Try asking about getting out of FreeBSD to run Java
> decently.
> Try asking them to install a servlet engine, a servlet that might need
> several hundred megabytes of RAM and a native XML database all summing
> up to more than a *million* of lines of code (apache is around 50000!)
> Then report back to us. :)
> Easy, you say: let's move on another machine.
> Good, try asking them about this.
> It has been *YEARS* that we java-related members fight to have more
> dynamic stuff on, but dynamism for them means 
> .htaccess with
> some mod_rewrite stuff and some content negotation.
> Why this? several reasons, and some ego-related, but mainly: the less
> dynamic stuff, the less security problems.
> At the same time, the more machines, the less centralized the 
> sys-admin
> becomes for that has to delegate more and more.
> If it was for me, we would have hosted on Cocoon since
> summer 1999, but believe me, it's much easier to write a portable HTML
> than to have Cocoon installed on apache servers.
> yes, I hope to change this in the future and this Forrest 
> effort is the
> first step in this direction, but it's the first step, not 
> the last one.
> -- 
> Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
>                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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