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From "Tom Klaasen (TeleRelay)" <tr-tklaa...@telerelay.com>
Subject RE: [RT] Managing Flow and Resources
Date Tue, 11 Dec 2001 14:04:38 GMT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruno.Dumon@the-ecorp.com [mailto:Bruno.Dumon@the-ecorp.com] 
> Sent: dinsdag 11 december 2001 14:40
> To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
> Subject: RE: [RT] Managing Flow and Resources 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Klaasen (TeleRelay) [mailto:tr-tklaasen@telerelay.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 11, 2001 10:08 AM
> > To: cocoon-dev@xml.apache.org
> > Subject: RE: [RT] Managing Flow and Resources 
> 
> [big fat snip]
> 
> > However, XML allows you to enforce some limitations on the 
> users. Java
> > does not. As you can already see in the example above IMHO, 
> > it gets very
> > difficult to cling to and enforce the SOC principle. The 
> > shopping-cart()
> > function seems to be flow control, but the change-address() 
> is already
> > business logic IMO.
> > 
> > Of course, the very intelligent programmers who are 
> > developing this from
> > the start, will be able to enforce the SOC for themselves, 
> > but newcomers
> > who learn by trial-and-error (as we all do) will have serious
> > difficulties to grasp it, even if they want to.
> 
> Very right indeed. I'm currently working on a cocoon-based 
> project where the
> original developers also didn't realize the importance of separating
> publishing, flow and business logic. 

I think a correction is in place (I think I know the project and their
developers ;) ): the original developers did realize the importance of
SoC, but didn't know all the finesses and features of Cocoon to reach
SoC perfectly. Which is exactly my point: when learning something, you
do trial-and-error, and if something works, you're content, without
seeing the consequences of your decision, and the alternatives that do
more separation. And this is why the users should be forced to do some
things, and don't do other things.

[snip]

> > If you're into Cocoon, you don't like GUI development (except maybe
> > Bruno Dumon ;-)). It is a whole different world. So the 
> > chances are slim
> > there will stand up anybody to make a GUI.
> > 
> 
> GUI development isn't that different from webapp development. 
> It's all based
> around MVC (model-view-controller), or in cocoon speek MVC = "business
> logic" - "publishing pipeline" - "flow". The fun part in gui 
> development is
> when you actually write your own rendering code (the view), instead of
> reusing existing widgets.

Your preferences _were_ stated apart for a reason ;-)


Happy to see you're still on this list,
tomK

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