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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [RT] Managing Flow and Resources
Date Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:27:15 GMT
MJ Ray wrote:
> Torsten Curdt wrote:
> >Let's stay with the XML syntax! Otherwise would be a step backwards!
> >Maybe we can work out a different way to combine the current sitemap
> >with the new flow managing.
> The schemer would say that XML syntax is a huge step backwards from what
> already existed... ;-)

Granted :) [in fact, I was told that Guy Steele now uses XML as a
defense to parethesis frequency in Scheme]

> I think the more productive issue is to examine the differences between the
> more program-like style of Ovidiu's proposal and the current sitemap syntax,
> with an eye on what can be learnt from that.  

Absolutely. This is what I suggested when I said that a syntax is
nothing more than the 'style' on top of the programming language
semantics. It's another concern and shouldn't influence our decision on
the semantics.

Still, the user base is what it is and we must be as user-friendly as
possible: for example, I personally think that italian is a great
language to express many things in a much more detailed and precise way
than english, but how would you feel if I required you to learn italian
in order to use Cocoon?

I know I'm exagerating, but that's on purpose: user-friendly is also a
mean of getting close to the user and on the web, the amount of schemers
is very close to zero. (unfortunately, you might say and I wouldn't
disagree myself, but that's the way it is and we don't have the power,
right now, to change this).

At the same time, introducing the concept of continations to java
programmers would open up their minds and make Cocoon different from any
other implementation of a java webapp framework.

Still, we must make sure this transition is easy, well documented and
widely recognized as a good thing, or we'll end up with forking friction
so great that will tear this project apart and this is *exactly* the
last thing I want to happen.

> Where there are differences,
> there are normally some "right" answers on both sides.  Sadly, I'm not
> well-placed to look at this, as I don't think Ovidiu has described all the
> features his concept has, while I'm no guru of the current sitemap.
> Please do not just do the knee-jerk "it has brackets!  Puke!" response.
> Remember how happy you get when people dismiss Cocoon because it is written
> in Java.

Very good suggestion. I think we'll all try to follow it.

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

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