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From "Nicola Ken Barozzi" <>
Subject Re: [OT] Design Rant
Date Wed, 19 Dec 2001 21:49:53 GMT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <>
To: <>; "Apache XML" <>
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2001 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [OT] Design Rant

> Copied to general@ since this is a general discussion.
> Ugo Cei wrote:
> >


> > Incidentally, adopting a pure-CSS based solution for both layout AND
> > styling means that people using:
> >
> > - text browsers
> > - screen readers for the sight impaired
> > - mobile devices
> > - anything you cannot conceive now but that will be make web
> >    access available from your washing machine or whatever :)
> >
> > will be able to access the site contents without their "screen" or
> > reader being cluttered with spurious markup that is not in any way
> > related to the content they need.

I like and agree on all you say, except that there is a real-world problem.
Netscape4 -crashes- with CSS set on the body tag.
Not nice.  :-(

Here is part of the article:
<article type="part" url="">
An actor never says to the crowd, "I'm a little old for this role, wouldn't
you say, folks?" And a Web designer never tells the viewer, "Whew! You
should see all the JavaScript I've put in the header to protect you from
realizing how crappy your browser is."

It is gauche to tell users that their browser stinks. It's like insulting
their clothing or their charming regional accent.

It's unfashionable to complain about a specific browser, though it's become
acceptable (as it should be) to complain about a general lack of support for

Yet, if information wants to be free, so does the truth.

I don't know about your shop, but in mine, we spend hours spewing out
torturous (often questionable) code to make stuff work in Navigator 4.

"Netscape and Style Sheets. They go together like peanut butter and bicycle
chains," I confided to a fellow Web designer recently.

It's become the dirty little secret of our Industry. The thing nobody wants
to say out loud.


Instead of working round crappy browsers, shouldn't we tell
the user how crappy their browser is?
How can market dynamics work if the user is unable to see
how really good a product is, and for "good" on the Web it
should be also "follows the standard".
If the browser isn't capable of performing sensibly on an old
and stable web standard, is it my fault?
Let the producer fix it.
I'm not sure that this is really the way to go, but it sure seems
sensible to me.

Nicola Ken Barozzi These are the days of miracle and wonder...
                       don't cry baby, don't cry
<>                          Paul Simon

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