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From "Paulo Gaspar" <>
Subject RE: Interpreted sitemap
Date Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:32:40 GMT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stefano Mazzocchi []
> Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 3:37 PM
> Sorry for the delay but this has not exactly the best week in my life :/

No problem. My answer time is damn slow these days too.

I hope everything turns ok for you.

> great, I've seen "myrmidon" and saw that was based on many avalon
> concepts (which made *me* very happy but others on the Ant list very
> angry) but didn't dive into the new ideas.

I guess it was a cultural shock. My very personal opinion (i.e.: not
searching for a flame war (o;= ) is that Ant tends to be a bit hacked while
Peter Donald tends to overdesign a bit.

> > ...
> I like the concept of "direct" or "inverted" configuration. Direct when
> you get the data and configure yourself (as Avalon does today),
> "inverted" is when somebody places the right stuff in the right position
> (javabeans is just a very simple model that implements this).


Many cases are easier to implement with one and others with the other, but,
together, this strategies efficiently cover any case I can think of. (When
not, there is probably something wrong somewhere else.)

> As much as I think that javabeans are a very simple form of "inverted
> configuration", I totally agree with you that there are more general
> paradigm that could be explored in this direction.

Cool. Not everybody is willing to be that flexible. My priority is just
overall simplicity and robustness.

Notice also that the Configurator object I mention is basically a
_strategy_ that can be replaced. Its presence makes the configuration
mechanism quite more flexible - to cover most specific/new needs or just
test new ideas one just has to replace one Configurator with another.

>... several ego boosting remarks ...

Thanks a lot! Usually I get flamed for things like this.

> > I see no reason why the configuration has to be FLAT. Actually, I find
> > it much easier to build deep configurations with this mechanism.
> Understood and totally granted.


> > The funny thing is that there is nothing complicated about this whole
> > thing. It is just assembling simple components in a simple but powerful
> > way.
> ...
> Why don't you donate us your code? :) I love this approach (even if we
> should probably talk about this over to Avalon-land)

I need 2 things to do that:
 1 - Boss authorization (company paid work).
 2 - Time;

In general, the company I work for is Open Source friendly but I must check
the specifics of this project.

Having a positive answer, I still have the time problem. At this stage I
have loads of work. I will not have opportunity to talk with my chief and
time to cleanup this stuff before some 2 or 3 weeks.

Basically I need to cut some dependencies and change some bits to make this
thing easier to move into Avalon. But even after I do that, someone must
pick it up.

Besides that, I can prepare the code to the point it compiles with Avalon,
but someone else must then test it (in case something gets broken in the
process) and better adapt its style to Avalon's.

The problem is that I do not use neither Avalon nor Cocoon. I picked code
and ideas from both (and from other projects) but the needs I have are
quite different. So, I am not involved enough with Avalon to take care of
this stuff after I transfer it.

In case you are wondering why I do not use the original Avalon but still
have this piece of code, let's just say that my configuration stuff is
very very compatible with Avalon's configuration stuff, but all the rest
is quite different. Even my "ComponentManager" related stuff works in a
very different way.

I am sure we could make a new religious war out of the reasons that led
me to this... so... I better present it just as a fact. I can always come
back to it "just for fun" when I have the time!

Are you still interested on this?

I should probably post the code somewhere even before the cleanup is done
to check if someone likes it and wants to pick it. But first, I must get
an opportunity to talk with my chief about this.

But please believe me that I would like very much to donate this. So many
of the ideas are from Apache projects that it makes all the sense.

> Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
>                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <>                             Friedrich Nietzsche

Have fun,
Paulo Gaspar

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