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From "Robert Koberg" <>
Subject Re: sharing microsoft experience
Date Wed, 28 Nov 2001 03:31:50 GMT
Ahhh... so you see the benefit is turning forms into prettier forms. I agree
that is a good thing. But how do you address someone who wants to enter an

I agree that willy-nilly editing on the page is a bad thing. But you can
show a view of the page with the content section editable in a free-form
way. In fact the users can use the site (uneditable nav bar) to naviagate to
each editable page. So, in effect, they see the site as a user would but
they can change the _content_.

The content that is generally entered into an article can be managed, things
like: lists, titles, paras, td, what-have-you...

----- Original Message -----
From: "Stefano Mazzocchi" <>
To: <>
Sent: Tuesday, November 27, 2001 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: sharing microsoft experience

> Andre Ulrich wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I just want to mention that OEone develop some kind of Abiword Plugin
> > for Mozilla. At least there is a screenshot:
> >
> >
> > Abiword itself is in active development and is nearly plattform
> > independent. It is possible to import and export all kinds of format
> > such as XHTML, rtf, tex etc..
> >
> Probably I didn't make myself clear enough on my previous postings.
> I find an inline WYSIWYG XHTML editor almost useless: yeah, it would be
> an advancement over frontpage for many people since they don't have to
> fire up another application, but this is not the point.
> The absolutely brilliant concept behind IE 5.5+ "contentEditable" is
> that editing can now be *granular*!
> I can selectively allow users to edit parts of the page. And *ONLY*
> those parts.
> So, for example, depending on your role (determined after a login,
> IP-matching, client-side certificate, crypto javacard, whatever), I can
> selectively allow you to edit parts of the page (for example, the
> article title, subtitle and text) without you to edit the rest of the
> page (the day of submission, the navigation bar, the banner stuff)
> With a free-form tool, you are not helping the user: you are probably
> confusing him more than you'd do with a simple textarea.
> Usability is *NOT* matter of how many features you have, but how much
> you can empower the user. In this case, an editor, somebody who is used
> to paper or M$ Word, but is normally bugged by the free-form-ness of
> word even if they never used anything more structured that guides them.
> In fact, a form-based editor (something we would ultimately consider a
> technological crap) is probably more useful than a fully free-form
> editing tool.
> contentEditable brings the two worlds together: you have immediate
> visual feedback on what you type (unlike forms) but you can't do many
> mistakes since the editor forces you to edit only those parts that you
> are allowed to (unlike free-form editing solutions).
> If mozilla clones this feature (hopefully in an interoperable way
> between IE) it's likely to become *the* cross-platform editing
> technology of choice for almost all useful content management systems.
> Unfortunately, for what I could observe from the mozilla source code,
> there is no such thing in place and I have a very hard time estimating
> how much effort would it be required in order to enable it.
> Comments?
> --
> Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
>                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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