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From "Sam Ruby" <>
Subject RE: Cocoon and Axis
Date Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:40:59 GMT
Whee!  A fun philosophical debate!  ;-)

Marc Fleury wrote:
> |People who were active participants for long periods of time disappear
> |suddenly and without a trace for a long period of time, only to poke their
> |head in occasionally to give advice as to what the others should be working
> |on.  No, I am not attempting to single out Sanjiva - pretty much all but
> |one or two names on the committers list falls into this category.
> well frankly I am amused by the naivete of this....
> OF COURSE people come and people go, only when you are paid full time by IBM
> can you afford to commit full time.  I am reading this thread and alarms go
> off in my head left and right.

I happen to be an IBMer.  Axis is not my full time job.  The other IBMers
on the commit list are many of the ones I mentioned as having come and
gone.  I also happen to be an Apache member, Cocoon committer, Jakarta PMC
chair, XML PMC member...

Let me tell you, bootstrapping a community is HARD.

> It looks as if IBM controls the commit, does a poor job of following up with
> all the people, is surprised at fundamental workings of Open Source.

IBM in no way controls the commit.  SOAP 2.x was largely an IBM effort.
Axis represents an new community based beginning. The one person who
undoubtedly has been the most consistent leader of this effort over the
past year is Glen Daniels (MacroMedia).

The problem I was referring to comes in when people identify attachments as
a significant omission, and someone who has established a track record for
contributing good code volunteers to take that assignment, works on it
briefly and then disappears.  And this process gets repeated.

We also have had a potentially good contribution from HP which was of the
form "here it is guys, it isn't complete and I can't work on it anymore".

Clearly, my explanation of the problem wasn't complete.  We have had a low
threshold for admitting commiters, but this wasn't enough.  We also need a
"critical mass" of core developers.  We clearly dipped below that level a
few months back, but we are now working back to a workable level.

> What you are going to see is forks if you don't remedy the situation.

Cool.  Let me know when and where and I will follow you there.

Look, most of the commits to SOAP 2.x post the 2.2 release are mine.  I'm
probably only second to Glen in terms of commits to Axis in the last three
months.  I'm serious, make something better with a more viable community
model and I'm there.

Meanwhile, I am going to try to see if we can make this one work.

- Sam Ruby

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