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From "Carsten Ziegeler" <>
Subject AW: [RT]: Session support
Date Wed, 17 Oct 2001 11:21:27 GMT
Hi Stefano,

> Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> Carsten Ziegeler wrote:
> > The serializer needs to know if a url must be rewritten or not. This
> > depends on information contained in the current request object. So
> > there is always the dependencies to other information than the input.
> hmmmm, I disagree: is the transparent transformer that must evaluate
> xlinks, not the serializer. Thus, the serializer doesn't need (nor
> should!) any other information than the input.
> > I like the idea of a transparent transformer. But how can Cocoon detect,
> > if this transformer should be used? This depends on the used serializer!
> It should not.
> > Asume, the user has a session and this is detected using url
> > rewriting. The user request a html page, this results in using
> > the transparent transformer and the html serializer. Now the
> > user requests the source of an xsp page. This results in not
> > using the transformer and in using the xml serialiuer. And so on.
> >
> > So I think there is a dependency between a serializer and the
> > transparent transformer in
> > a) When to use the transparent transformer
> > b) What this transformer has to transform (the list of attributes
> >   containing links)
> >
> > So this would end up in coding this logik into the serializer
> > and we have the same problem, again.
> Sorry, but I don't get it: if you instruct the sitemap engine to append
> a transparent link-evaluating transformer to every pipeline right before
> the serializer, you get what you want. Really, I don't see the problem.
Hm, perhaps here is our difference. What do you mean by "instruct the
sitemap engine to append..". If this is a manual approach, where the
sitemap editor explicitly chooses where the transformer should be used,
then you're right.
But again, if this should happen automatically, I don't know how this
should work. Let me try to explain it more by using a stupid example.
Assume the following two pipelines:

<map:match pattern="page">
    <map:generate src="myxml.xml"/>
    <map:transform src="xml2html.xsl"/>

<map:match pattern="source">
    <map:generate src="myxml.xml"/>
    <map:serialize type="xml"/>

Assume that - for any reason - the "myxml.xml" contains links. Now if
these links are transformed in both cases with the transparent transformer
the "source" pipeline doesn't display the correct source.
Perhaps I'm wrong, and the source should also be transformed by
the transparent transformer, then again you're right and I loose.
But I feel, that the transparent transformer should not always be used.


> > For the current caching implementation, there is no real difference
> > wheter a transparent transformer right before the serializer or
> > the serializer itself changes the data.
> > In case of url rewriting the pipeline would be cached right before
> > the transparent transformer or the serializer, and in the case
> > of no url rewriting the whole response would be cached.
> I still believe that serializers are somewhat special components and
> should not have a side entry for data.... also because I believe that
> serializers should be removed from pipeline definitions... but this is
> another story.
> --
> Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
>                           able to give birth to a dancing star.
> <>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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