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From Donald Ball <>
Subject Re: [RT] Cocoon and web applications
Date Tue, 27 Feb 2001 01:01:50 GMT
On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Jon Stevens wrote:

> > This has promise, although I would have to give some time to research
> > the Turbine MVC patterns.  There is alot that could be learned here.
> Nice to hear you say that given that the Action framework you just talked
> about in Cocoon 2 is essentially something that was invented at least 4
> years ago (even before Turbine existed) by my friend Leon Atkinson and was
> done first in PHP! I find it humorous that this same Action framework is
> also in Struts as well. More re-invention of the wheel because no one
> bothers to look at Turbine first or people claim that Turbine isn't J2EE so
> they don't want to use it. Duh. How lame.

or maybe people aren't psyched about using turbine since it's such a
moving target.

> I have been asking for years now that the Cocoon people take a look at
> Turbine, yet no one has bothered to do so. When people went gung-ho into
> XSLT and Cocoon, I sat back and watched and waited. Now people figured out
> that XSLT sucks even though I said XSLT sucked early on. What a joke.

jon, you're coming off as a condescending know-it-all here, and that
really pisses me off, grains of salt notwithstanding. several cocoon
developers have looked into turbine, and didn't see much to attract them.
the one bit that has been integrated, the connection pool stuff, has ended
up being a real PITA due to weird configuration complexities and api

as far as XSLT goes - i thought it rocked the party, and i still think it
rocks the party.

- donald

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