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From Giacomo Pati <>
Subject Re: [IT] C2 Complexity Syndrome
Date Fri, 27 Oct 2000 11:40:18 GMT

--- Paul Russell <> wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2000 at 06:48:28PM +0800, Niclas Hedhman wrote:
> > I just want to Raise a Condition, that I believe exists, and is the
> > greatest threat to Cocoon's long-term survival. As soon as C2
> stablizes
> > a little bit more, most of the effort must be put into
> "friendliness",
> > perhaps in form of presets, wizards, tools, or whatever. I believe
> a
> > higher-level of Configuration layer is needed, that can better be
> > communicating with configuration tools and such.
> I'd agree with that. I've been thinking a bit about this recently,
> and two things spring to mind.
>  1) can we set things up so that people don't have to touch
>     the sitemap to use cocoon? A lot of what a lot of people
>     will be doing is having a few XML documents and a few
>     stylesheets to work with - having them edit a 277 (last
>     time I counted the size of the one in the default webapp) 
>     line configuration file to achieve this seems a little
>     painful. One option would be to have a dramatically cut
>     down sitemap syntax which people can use if they prefer
>     - we could then (on the quiet) translate this into the
>     full syntax which we already use on more complex sites.
>     I guess this is a bit like the SiLLy logicsheet language
>     which is in the works. I wonder if what Giacomo et al were
>     talking about with being able to generate generators,
>     transformers and sitemaps with the XSP engine would help
>     here. (or does this all just make it even more complex).

Here I am :). We (Ricardo and I and I think others too) have discussed
it at the surface of the problem. I think Ricardo will think about it
in more depth. 

Ricardo, can you say something about it?

>  2) Do we need some kind of management tools to allow people
>     to edit sitemaps? Could we create a GUI client to do that?
>     How many of the sitemap features would we want to support
>     with it? Some of them? All of them? Is anyone else interested
>     in working to develop this tool? Should it be part of the
>     main project, or elsewhere?

As I've replied to Niclas' mail, there is a stylesheet already in the
webapp directory of the CVS which translates the sitemap into a html
page. I don't have the time to "dance on several weddings" (as germans
used to say). I'd would really appreciate the effort of building a web
based sitemap editor using C2 (also to show the capabilities of C2).

> To borrow Niclas' phraseology, just my GBP0.20 ;)

If I only could collect them all I'll retire soon :)


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Giacomo Pati, CTO/CEO                     Fax:   +41 (0)1 856 2201
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