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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [1.8] Let's get this right
Date Thu, 14 Sep 2000 13:14:50 GMT
Donald Ball wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Sep 2000, Robin Green wrote:
> > I have been given to understand that only the person who prepares the
> > release actually tests the release - relying on the fact that other people
> > will have been using CVS versions for weeks. So, it's very informal. This
> > could be changed.
> what we've done in the past is once the code is pretty stable and we want
> to release, stefano tests it under apache/win, i test it under
> apache/linux, and if everything seems fine, we push it out. sure, a more
> formal testing procedure would be nice, but we haven't exactly been
> swamped with offers by highly responsive people to test on other platforms
> - nor do we have much of a test suite.
> > >In that case could you publicize the platforms you
> > >are testing cocoon with? I think it is vital for 3rd party developers to
> > >know what platform to shoot for with their code.
> > >
> > >Also, I don't want to install a new cocoon version some day and one old
> > >cocoon app in a faraway corner of our server suddenly stops working and
> > >no-one notices, until the damage has been done.
> >
> > Exactly. This is a big worry of mine too. (Not so much with Cocoon itself
> > but with classes I've written to run in a cocoon environment - but that's
> > another story.)
> that problem plagues all software development. the best we can do is to
> not change contracts/APIs between layers without significant advance
> warning. i think we've done a great job on that so far.
> > Cocoon is more and more being used in production sites (see livesites and
> > there must be a fair few more that we don't know about!), so why not just
> > have a few days official testing period on cocoon-dev? No need to rush it
> > forward a few days just because of a feeling that "a release is long
> > overdue" - which it is, I agree, but not _desperately_ so.
> i disagree. i've got a whole slew of bug fixes to xinclude processor, sql
> logicsheet, and a new esql logicsheet. no one using cocoon-1.8dev has
> reported any problems. release early, release often - i like that motto.
> > So how about defining two variables that we should test.
> [ discussion of formal testing snipped ]
> if you want to spearhead that, you the man. i don't have the time to
> devote to it.
> > Beyond testing, I would also like to hold up the release for at least _some_
> > of the following things which I think are quite important:
> >
> > 1. Get docs to build, as mentioned above
> +1. are you gonna fix or is this open-ended?
> > 2. Ensure that the new mailing list archive URL replaces the old one
> > completely (I haven't seen the cvs-commit for that yet)
> +1, that's easy
> > 3. Add some common-sense recommendations to the mailing list page (search
> > the FAQ and the archive first; use informative Subject lines; don't keep
> > reposting too often; don't post user questions to cocoon-dev except in
> > special cases)
> -1, we don't need to hold up a release for this, just update the web
> site. of course if it's ready now, no reason not to include it.
> > 4. I've done an expanded FAQ with new answers, split into sections (needs
> > tweaking the faq DTD and Stylebook though), with persistent fragment IDs for
> > posting to the mailing lists, which together with (3) should help people
> > find answers faster AND increase the signal-to-noise ratio on the users list
> > (AND let me keep my sanity! ;)
> -1, ditto
> > 5. Commit the fixes to the synchronization bugs in (which could
> > cause pages to block indefinitely) and the primitive profiler (this all
> > comes as one patch so it would be more work to separate them than just to
> > commit them).
> wasn't aware there were any synch. bugs in Engine - did i miss this
> discussion? if the bugs have been there for awhile, then i'd vote -1,
> let's release, then test the patches extensively and release 1.8.1.
> > 6. (Can drop this for this release if people think best, but it is a
> > highly-requested feature and very useful!). Configurable and optional class
> > auto-reloading for user classes in XSP pages. This code has been well-tested
> > in my last employer's system. I will add a prominent warning to the docs
> > that this must be used with care because of dangers of memory bloat (totally
> > utterly separate class objects are created for each page, as separate as
> > webapps in catalina). Fortunately you can split up classes into "reload
> > this" and "do not reload these, to conserve memory".
> -1, that's a heavy duty change, save it for 1.8.1
> > 7. Fix all known cacheing bugs once and for all - I think this is doable.
> -1, it's also open-ended. i want 1.8 out the door! we know it's not
> perfect, but it's definitely a step forward. :) also, i _know_ there are
> people using 1.7.4 on production sites who haven't removed
> ProducerFromRequest - and we're still shipping 1.7.4 with insecure default
> settings. let's release a secure 1.8 and start work on 1.8.1.
> > If you're wondering why I still haven't committed anything yet, same reason
> > - still need to setup linux to commit (dialup config, ssh, cvs etc.) I'm
> > getting there - should be ready tommorow.
> need help, i'm here. it wasn't 100% obvious to me how to set it up. :)
> i'm sure we can reach a good compromise on releasing 1.8 - but i really
> don't want to hold it up for everything on your list - we've been
> essentially ready to release it for over a month now.

I totally agree with Donald. 1.8 should be one in a week not more.
Everything that doesn't get in will be in 1.8.1. 

That's how we worked in the past and the thousands of people subscribed
to this list tend to confirm we have been doing a pretty decent job.

But if you think you can do better, now you have the ability to show us
about it :)

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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