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From Stefano Mazzocchi <>
Subject Re: [C2]Access control using sitemap
Date Mon, 11 Sep 2000 18:19:51 GMT
Peter Donald wrote:
> At 10:58  9/9/00 +0200, Stefano Mazzocchi wrote:
> >And calling java methods from XSLT extentions or using WebMacro like
> >templating is not a better solution either, since all have pros and
> >cons. There is no silver bullet.
> just curious but what are the cons for a template approach. 

One for all: speed!

But this said, almost everything is a template system.

> I have only
> barely played with that and it was a custom solution a few years ago (when
> I didn't mind hacks :P). I would love to to have XML templating + CSS
> styling (rather than icky icky xslt) - so tell me why thats a bad idea :P

Well, maybe you are not listening, but tell me if this is ok for you

 <?xml version="1.0"?>
 <?xml-stylesheet href="page.css" type="text/css"?>
   <p>Hello Peter, I told you this <util:count/> times</p>

isn't this enough of a XML template with no "icky icky xslt"? ;-)

Why to you keep thinking that "using XSP" means "placing programming
code into your pages"?

What's the difference if the above is compiled into java or interepreted
at runtime from the author point of view?

> >> For instance the sitemap may pass incoming data down one
> >> action path - the path may result in one of 5 outwards bound
> >> publishing pipelines. The action can place magic-data
> >> in context to say which pipeline to choose etc.
> >>
> >> Does that make any sense ? :P
> >
> >Yes, but there is a problem with your vision: pipelines are _not_ chains
> >of actions. You cannot (and should not) have run-time pipeline
> >composition, otherwise the whole sitemap model falls apart.
> yep
> >The Turbine-like functionality can be perfectly stored into a complex
> >generator and leave the pipeline untouched.
> the problem with that is that actions are independent of any resource chain
> - and you would have to aggregate actions into one generator - which
> defeats purpose of component based engineering.

Good point. Then we have to follow Giacomo's suggestion and extend the
sitemap semantics.
> >Agreed, but you seem to imply with your mail that action-orientated
> >processing is not of our concern.. which is, indeed, not the case... we
> >just want to finish up the core before doing anything inside sitemap
> >components.
> ok - my mistake :P
> >No, you should get your hand dirty and make proposals. This is what
> >you've done in Avalon and it worked well, didn't it? When you have time
> >and energy you should do the same here to scratch your itches.
> well it look slike I prolly will - at least when I start working on that
> stuff :P

And we'll welcome your contributions :)

Stefano Mazzocchi      One must still have chaos in oneself to be
                          able to give birth to a dancing star.
<>                             Friedrich Nietzsche
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