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From "David Duddleston" <>
Subject RE: Cocoon2 Design
Date Thu, 01 Jun 2000 20:54:47 GMT

> > > Well, ECS could be updated to return SAX events.... but then you must
> > > make Turbine aware of SAX and make it a generator.... so if you do, it
> > > becomes an XTurbine :)
> >
> > ;-)
> > And this is almost the target we are aiming at... but I think it will be
> > easier just to take parts of Turbine and integrate them to Cocoon that
> > to rewrite whole Turbine into XTurbine (and the end result would still
> > be even bigger hack than now).

I agree. It is easy to forget that Turbine is a Framework which works for a
certain set of needs and programming styles, just as Cocoon does. Why bother
changing it.

Turbine has some base services like form based authentication and
authorization, connection pooling and other various utility classes the
expedite the development of Web Applications. Yes, it would be very nice to
use these same services in Cocoon as well. Considering the direction of
Cocoon 2 which to me seems like it will be playing the primary Web
Application role as in "I call you" instead of "You call me" <-- Stefano's
words,  then it would make even more sense that Cocoon should provide basic
services and utility classes that the majority of Web Application will need.
It is not an absolute, but seemingly logical.

The real trick it is to get collaboration between the different projects
(Turbine, Cocoon, JetSpeed, Avalon, Struts...) to share service/utility
related classes, but that has been a real losing battle over the last year
or so. I have seen it proposed over and over, but not much ever comes of it
for various reasons. Not to say that there has been no progress in that
direction, JetSpeed was reimplemented to run on top of Turbine (then Dash)
instead of going completely off on it's own, it seems there has been some
steps taken between Avalon and Cocoon to share some classes and concepts,
and James being built with Avalon. Actualy, there has been some good

On the other hand there is a strong aurgument of having multiple projects
that are decentralized with the ability to incubate ideas and concepts
without having to conform to any sort of standards or guideline created by
other projects.

I think there is some happy middle ground here that can be achieved, but it
would take several highly motivated people and some open minds by those
leading the various projects to make it happen.


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