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From Berin Loritsch <>
Subject Re: What are the XSP design goals?
Date Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:29:27 GMT
Mike Engelhart wrote:

> on 6/2/00 7:44 AM, Berin Loritsch at wrote:
> > One of the biggest usability goals of Cocoon should be that
> > it is completely reload-able like a true servlet should be.
> > If these design goals cannot be met in this manner, than support
> > for XSP should be separated into a separate package that
> > would have to be installed in the classpath, allowing the rest
> > of cocoon to operate normally.
> One thing though - compiled XSP are NOT servlets at all.   They just have
> access to the request/response object but I don't think that makes them
> servlets. Also XSP are reloadable by definition. If you change the XSP
> source file, it is recompiled and reloaded by Cocoon.
> Mike

My main point and major complaint is that Cocoon itself is no longer
able to act as a servlet because of the current implementation of XSP.
I was not trying to imply that XSP was a servlet.  I was trying to give
some possibilities that might make it so that I don't have to modify the
Tomcat/WebLogic/WebSphere/Insert your servlet engine $(%*#$
classpath.  I want to be able to drop a WAR file or directory in the
webapps folder and have XSP and everything else work normally.

As long as I can get along without XSP (fat chance) then Cocoon will
behave like a good servlet should.  I was impressed with how easy
it was compared to C1.7.x--with the ugly exception that XSP forces
me to perform the classpath *HACK*.

I'm sure there is a way that we can have compiled pages and let Cocoon
behave like a good little servlet should.  Otherwise we should stop
frontin' and make this a complete App Server with EJB and the like
built in.  >I don't see this as part of what Cocoon is or even should do<

Don't get me wrong--C2 rocks, and so does XSP.  I want this thing
to rock everyone's world.  I want this project to be so good and so
compelling that it would be completely obvious that in order to
plunk down money for an inferior framework would be ludicrous
to even Dilbert's boss.

Unfortunately, this sticky point is going to give ammunition to anybody
who is trying to protect their own pet project saying, "see Cocoon isn't
a real servlet...."

Do not take the above paragraph to mean anything against what is
already in Cocoon.  Do not take offense at the content--I am merely
making a point.

The current version of XSP in C2 still has carried over some design
constraints from C1.7.x that I think should be done away with.  I am
trying, as best I can to help C2 blow the socks off of everybody who
has used C1.  Those of you who spend a fair amount of time in the
Cocoon-users list *know* that one of the sticky points is setting up
C1 correctly with XYZ servlet engine.  There is always the problem
of where to stick the jars and which classpath to set, and the inevitable
issues with classpath ordering and the multiple XML parsers out there.
We have the potential to be able to aleviate 9 out of 10 questions by
making C2 behave as a servlet.  I want to be able to upgrade from
C2.0 to C2.1 without restarting my web server.  Am I making any
sense here?

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