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From "Neeme Praks" <>
Subject RE: Cocoon and Jetspeed
Date Mon, 05 Jun 2000 20:41:48 GMT

As the discussion gets very Jetspeed specific, I'll move this to
Jetspeed list now.
Please make any further replies only to jetspeed list.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: burtonator []
> Sent: Saturday, June 03, 2000 3:35 AM
> > I've seen JetSpeed and like the idea very much, but it could be made
> > _much_ simpler and more easily extended by using the full power of
> > Cocoon2. Of course, not being available, this is something 
> > hard to do so Kevin doesn't have any absolute fault in this.
> +1024.  I need to be more active in this area but yes!


> A large amount of features will use Cocoon 2.0.  There are many areas
> within Jetspeed I am unhappy with.  Our next release (similar to the
> Cocoon 2.0 blue sky) will fix these as well.

I'm glad to hear this. To find out this was the basic reason why I
started this whole thread. I wanted to find out if the Jetspeed
development is taking into account the Cocoon2 development. Now that I
have learned this, I can sleep again at nights ;-)

> Just a UI on top of PSML that is based on XSP.  The PSML would be
> transformed into XHTML and would allow you to configure your own PSML
> file.

> I don't like this ProjectX vs ProjectY format of this thread.
> Jetspeed will ALWAYS run with Turbine and Cocoon.  We won't be getting
> rid of either one for any time soon.  Each has its advantage.
> Turbine handles the logic backend, Cocoon should handle the
> presentation, Jetspeed should handle the data.  

I think I'm somewhat responsible for the ProjectX vs ProjectY format of
this thread and I apologise for taking it in this direction. It has been
totally unintentional, I'm just trying to figure out how the different
pieces of the puzzle fit together. And your vision is something I
totally agree with, that's something I wanted to arrive at.

> I think you are viewing Turbine from the perspective of content.  The
> Screens/Navigations etc can be done much better without code! 
> It should be XML only.  I want to use Turbine for the backend features
> pooling, etc)

> > I see this as the only future-compatible solution... otherwise, you
> > might well see people tearing apart your project and 
> porting the useful
> > pieces over to Cocoon... which will be very sad :/
> Yeah.  That would be me.  :) Read ./docs/TODO.  Cocoon 2.0 is great. 
> But you don't see me talking about Jetspeed 1.3 all the time 
> because the
> code isn't done.  All these issues will be addressed.  

I see many great things in TODO. However, I think there is also a
shortcoming with the current development: too much effort is being put
to developing actual applications of the Jetspeed framework without the
framework itself being completed yet.
Well, I'm not 100% aware, if this is actually the case, but this is just
my impression. Probably I have this impression because I have different
priorities concerning Jetspeed "core" features: it is more important for
me to have a stable framework for building portlets and user
personalization. Kevin, as I have understood, prioritizes more content
management and related stuff and this is the strong side of the current
Jetspeed. I'm not blaming Kevin for this, just expressing my view of the
current weak point of Jetspeed. I'll try to help out in this area, as
soon as I get comfortable enough with the current code base.

To be more speficic, the first thing on my todo list is the possibility
for a user to have more than one personalized page.
This is a place where an XSP page instead of a static XML file could
help out (but I'm not sure if it is an option at all). I will be digging
deeper into Jetspeed code to understand how this could be achieved in
the easiest manner (each user having a separate directory maybe?); maybe
someone has some ideas on this / can give me some pointers in the right

No hard feelings, just trying to help and put together the jigsaw puzzle
about all these different projects in my head ;-)


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