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From Pierpaolo Fumagalli <>
Subject Re: Documentation grammars, was:[Re: [RT] latest wonderings around W3C land and surroundings]
Date Sat, 01 Apr 2000 04:18:07 GMT
Stefano Mazzocchi and Mike Pogue wrote:
> > You know how much I'm obsessed by "forking" and "overlapping"... why?
> > because in the open source movement they don't represent "diversity",
> > they represent "waste of precious resources".
> Oooh.  You are heading away from the whole idea of the Bazaar here,
> which "resemble[s] a great babbling bazaar of differing agendas and
> approaches".
> DocBook strikes me as "quiet, reverent cathedral-building".  (quotes are
> from the Cathedral and the Bazaar).
> > If you believe we can possibly think about changing this, it's easier
> > that you say that I'm a total idiot, because that is what your sentence
> > meant to me.
> Sorry, didn't mean it that way.  IMHO, both Stylebook and Cocoon are
> dangerously close to having an "Official DTD".  My evidence?  How many
> alternate DTD's do we have?  Few. How many site styles do we have? Few.
>  And, all the styles that we do have look pretty much alike (hierarchical
> nav bar on the left, composited banner at the top, copyright at the bottom,
> etc.)  I'd say that's strong evidence that we don't have ENOUGH diversity,
> ENOUGH randomness, and ENOUGH wasted energy, and we probably have too much
> Cathedral building going on here.
> It's not just Cocoon (hey, chill out, will ya?!), it's Stylebook, too
> (re-read my quote above -- I'm commenting on both of them).

kids kidS kiDS kIDS KIDS... I'm asking... Why in the world are you
_BOTH_ overreacting in that way??? We're talking about (sorry Norman) a
stupid DTD...

THE TOOLS ARE DTD-FREE... And you both know it... The point is: why did
noone came up with something different with Stylebook? Because it's
structure is SO COMPLICATED that it's easier to reuse the same shit over
and over (and I wrote that shit, so I know how it stinks!) than EVEN
THINKING about doing something different (I didn't do it twice! and I'm
the freakin' author of it!). Cocoon 2.0 addresses THAT SPECIFIC PROBLEM
I FOUND IN STYLEBOOK, and eases _so_much_ the creation process that
currently, in my Cocoon 2.0 talk I use more than 8 different
"approaches" to solve the same problem... XML publication.

And also, Stefano, please... DocBook _is_ a DTD, is not an API carved
into stone, chill out, will ya? you want the docs in DocBook? Ok, let me
pay that 50$ and buy that book from O'Reilly and come up with a couple
of stylesheets...

Pier (asking why people cannot see sometimes 1 inch after their nose!)
pier: stable structure erected over water to allow docking of seacraft
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